Sometimes life isn’t about defined paths from A to B.
Sometimes it’s about making sure you make the right decision, either by following your interest and curiosity, or identifying what drives you and do more of that.
My #podcast with Liz Lewis, Director of Success 360 Methodology at Salesforce was really interesting, as she talked about her journey in the Salesforce ecosystem, and how she got to her current role at Salesforce.
She shares the lessons she learned along the way, and her insight about stakeholders and bringing the right people to the table for “organisational therapy”
😁 Enjoy!
Transcript
Pei Mun Lim
Hello, Liz Lewis! Well, good morning to you.
Liz
Yes. Good evening to you. Thank you.
Pei Mun Lim
Oh, welcome to my podcast, which is called OnThePeiroll. How are you today?
Liz
I’m good. Thank you for having me. It’s my first podcast. So I apologize if I’m bald. But yeah, it’s, it’s awesome.
Pei Mun Lim
absolutely happy to have you. Now I was I connected with you, because of some exchanges that we’ve had on LinkedIn in your profile is really, really interesting. So why don’t we jump right into it. And I would like to hear the story of how you got to where you are today. And feel free to begin at any point. And let’s just have the conversation flow.
Liz
Sure. So like we talked about before I fell into the Salesforce world. When I went to college, I had a political science, a Communications major. So I was planning to go to law school decided that the last minute to take break from school for all those years and work. So just happened to get hired into product marketing. And from there, I made a move into the digital space for a grocery store chain in Cleveland. So they just happen to have used the exact target because that’s what their partner recommended. And that was my entrance into what was eventually Salesforce marketing cloud. Started in the partner world a couple of years after that, only got there because my sales rep at the time was begging me to meet with one of the partners who wanted to talk with me about the deal they had going on at my company, and just fell into chatting. And you say, we could really use someone like you doing implementations and some of our consulting work. So again, fell into into the consulting world, and then from there, held a variety of roles, started a campaign management practice for ongoing campaign services. So anyone listening who’s not familiar with marketing cloud, that’s the day to day email deployments, getting them set up, getting the audience ready to go handling the deployment, and reporting back to the client. So ongoing relationships, but took implementation work training work, went on to run the solution consulting team there and then moved into more of a practice COE type role at IBM. So that was a bit crazy. The scale all of a sudden went from small to as big as you could potentially get on the Salesforce side. And, and from there really have been doing enterprise system design on the platform with cross cloud initiatives, and found the position at Salesforce that matched exactly what I wanted to do. So focusing really on design thinking and changing experiences. It just resonated with me and sent in my, my resume. And here we are, so.
Pei Mun Lim
Uh huh. Thank you. Can you just give me one moment to deal with a little
Liz
problem? What is a lot of words?
Pei Mun Lim
I have just one second.
Liz
Oh, yeah, no worries.
Pei Mun Lim
Sorry. I’m just going to post. Thank you for that, Liz. It sounds like your career path has been a series of happy accidents, because I heard you use the word fell into one. And that kind of tells me that it’s not a purposeful journey as that’s what I want to do. This is how I’m going to get there. These are the steps I’m going to take. If I can take you right back to the first role. You talked about you talking about retail, what was it about your particular experience, then that kind of set you off on that path? And you mentioned that you did a degree on political science? How did you get that first job? And was it where you thought you would start off with? Just just walk me through? What’s going on?
Liz
Yes, so I had put in a resume to our school’s Career Center and I went to a school that’s primarily engineering. So at the time, they said, Yeah, we we may not have any jobs for you because you’re in Arts and Sciences, and that’s not typically our focus. And just happen to get a call from the company. I ended up going to first where they were looking for people who had good writing skills, who had a good balance of technical and that writing ability, because at that time really, it was writing leaflets and catalogs and, and those pieces, and that was 2002. So before anyone was really getting into the digital space. So it was, in a sense, a happy accident looking back on it now I am shocked. That worked out so well honestly, especially with the market today. And how, how hard it is to have those things just happen now. And so I don’t know that it would happen that way. Now, for someone, so I don’t want it to sound like Oh, go out and do this. Because realistically, it may not be possible. But yeah, they were just looking for people who could write well, and could tell a technical story to a non technical audience, and hired a few people just out of school to do that. So they think the biggest thing for me was just being open to trying it and to try and move these positions. Because I was not one of those people who knew what they wanted to be from the time they were small, or I still don’t necessarily know what I want to be when I grew up, I love what I’m doing. But it was never something you imagined, like, Oh, I’m going to be working in technology consulting. So I was glad they took a chance on me. And I took a leap of faith going into into that sort of role not having any sort of marketing background.
Pei Mun Lim
That’s fantastic. What I want to the thread I want to pull out, actually, so how you’ve described your fastball is fantastic. So what you took away from it was the ability to write well, and to be able to tell a technical story to a non technical people. So that was a piece of very valuable piece of skill that you you’re quiet at, you know, at that particular job. Can you do that for the subsequent places that you’ve landed in and what you took from that, that then added up to the list of today that got to where you are now. So that I think is quite an interesting story.
Liz
Yeah, I think that’s a big part of how I ended up where I am is a I love technology. And being able to translate that and understand the difference, the different audiences you’re speaking to, because sometimes you are speaking to a very technical audience, and we’ll have that conversation. But being able to translate these topics into quick reads, easy to digest, and make people feel comfortable with what’s going on. Because like I said, my next job from there was sending sending emails for grocery stores. So not necessarily explaining it to a technical audience. But because the digital marketing team was so new and digital marketing was so new at that point, being able to take that technology and evangelize it internally, to then branch out into social media and then branch out into other email campaigns and really building the program. That piece of being able to sell it without the sales piece is key. And that’s key in in consulting and setting up your clients to have trust in you. And faith that even if you’re not explaining everything, that you have their best interests in mind and understand their needs and their goals, and can really explain why you’re doing what you’re doing. And give them enough technical, technical knowledge. So that you can meet them at their level. And they also understand why you’re taking the path you are. So it’s really finding that balance. And that’s not unique on the marketing cloud side by any means and across the Salesforce platform. With consulting roles, it’s really critical to be able to have that conversation and not just fall back on your technical knowledge.
Pei Mun Lim
Okay, so you make really good point there. What I want to ask now is about how you move from an end user environment to a consulting environment. How did that happen? And how did you feel at that time?
Liz
I was very, very nervous. Sorry to cut you off if you had something else. And I had tried to talk them out of hiring me at first because they were looking for someone who was really technical and really understood all the ins and outs of the technology. And I had been sending campaigns I was self taught, I knew how to do some things, but not necessarily in the best way. So they again, were really looking for someone who could tell that story, but was also willing to learn the technology. And they were confident that I could learn the technology piece to the level that they desired. But also had that vision on the tech side, seeing where the industry was going. And really a mind wanting to branch out and some of those new trends and the new pieces of technology that were being launched. Because that I think is also key when we’re talking career paths is things changed so quickly, that you either want to learn it, which is great, or you don’t, which is also fine. But knowing when to dig deeper, was, I think key for them hiring me and knowing I wanted to dig deeper, versus staying in the same type of role and becoming sort of an email deployment expert. But yeah, like he’s I was very, very nervous going in there. But thankfully, with all the certifications and learning paths that they had, at the time, was able to quickly gain that technical confidence and then apply the storytelling piece in that evangelist role to the partner world there and really extend what we were doing for our clients beyond what they initially thought was a good experience.
Pei Mun Lim
So what he’s saying is, they hired you for the attitude, basically, the mindset you have, and the segment you had for technology, as opposed to knowing about the platform and its capabilities. Was that what made you the most nervous?
Liz
Yes, I think that’s what made me the most most nervous and moving into a billable role. There’s, there’s nerves in that too, right, knowing that you have to watch your hours and you have to build all of your time. And will you meet your targets having never been in a consulting role? And that, to me was also a big shift. And I was worried that it wouldn’t, wouldn’t happen a little bit. I know there was so much business that we would be billing over our targets consistently. But yeah, the just that mindset, for growth and for change. And, in my case, Stuart, having a point of view, on where some of these things are going even if it’s not 100%, right, or 100%, thought out, being able to talk to people about where you see social media going and how you want to apply it in my case. But again, set you up as someone who wants to dig more into the technology, even if you haven’t been a technical expert. Up until that point.
Pei Mun Lim
Was there anything about a shift to to consulting that apart from the timesheets and utilization levels, there anything else that was a culture shock for you.
Liz
Going into client facing work in general, I think was a bit of a bit of a shock. And the first partner I was at, they were not a consulting firm and the way that you would think of big four consulting, and they were working for smaller clients, and it was very much one to one relationship in a limited capacity. So it wasn’t quite the culture shock, I would think you’d have potentially going into what we traditionally think of as consulting. I cannot understate how much I hate time. So that’s a big one. Yeah, but being responsible for a client success and not being in that internal role, where what you’re really focusing on is a longer term, fake engagement from the consulting side but internal so you have the relationships you can directly ask for budget, you have a bit more agency in how things go. Versus that client facing mindset where they have goals sometimes goals you may not I agree with, and you need to find a path to get them there without that other support that you would have if you were in an internal role. So that was a big shift for me. And it’s, it’s honestly something that’s still challenging. So that was part of why I pursued a non billable role.
Pei Mun Lim
So from there, you didn’t move into the sort of like managing the practice, am I right?
Liz
Yeah. And that’s really being that COE and focusing on thought leadership. And, again, that internal evangelists this huge there, because when you’re talking about a company, at the scale of IBM, having to be able to tell that story at scale, was was critical, and tie it back to the technology and how that can really benefit clients. There was a lot more art of the possible there, and a lot more complexity on the technical side. That was really exciting. incredibly cool projects. And really long term client relationships. So coming in as a practice lead, you’d benefit from that trust that’s already been established. And, and people are looking at you as an expert, just because they’re close contact is bringing you to the table, which was something I really enjoyed about that type of non billable role. There’s also a bit of freedom, and going into solution consulting with being able to paint the vision and not have to deliver it. That’s a bit exciting as well. But I always tried to apply a delivery mindset to that having been on the receiving end this deals.
Pei Mun Lim
Absolutely, I think I think having been a delivery actually adds a huge amount of value, when you go into the front loaded part of the engagement, the art of possible and trying to get the client excited about what the platform can do for them. It’s quite exciting. But having been delivery, you know that you can’t make promises that you can’t there’s there’s a tendency for, for that to happen. So that’s really good. Your answer actually sparked to two questions that I can I can pick up so one is and in your role as director is managing the p&l not part of that role? Or?
Liz
Yeah, that’s not, that’s not part of that role. And I’ve honestly never gotten into the p&l side of things. Just because working for companies the size of IBM and cognizant, you’ve got so many people already taking care of that piece. So that was, yeah, experience. I didn’t have it when I was interviewing for a number of different roles, as I was interviewing for my current role that came up sometimes is have you managed p&l, and it was coming up more and more at that director level? So anyone who can get experience doing that, I think it’s really great experience to have. But you don’t necessarily have to have it as I’ve, as I’ve demonstrated,
Pei Mun Lim
Fair enough. Fair enough. And so my second question was in terms of what was that shift? So you move from in user to consulting, then to becoming a director? And you talked a lot about the things that excited you in that role in that space? Was there anything that you didn’t like, or didn’t enjoy as part of that role?
Liz
So I would say when I first moved in to a director level role, and being on the partner side of things, such a focus on sales targets, and I don’t think this is particular to any one company, and like we’re talking about with the solution, consulting piece, such pressure to meet those targets that sometimes you’re putting forth concepts or contracts that are not ideal, to, to put it mildly. And again, I don’t think that’s any of the companies I work for that happens everywhere. So that’s one of the pieces that I was really looking forward to moving It’s more of an internal role is not constantly having that numbers pressure on top of what you’re trying to do, which is delivering quality work and and helping clients grow their business. So that was always a struggle for me.
Pei Mun Lim
Have you ever encountered a situation that really tested your moral compass?
Liz
And lucky that I haven’t, from a standpoint of clients we’ve worked with, and have been very grateful for the leadership I’ve had along the way who have stood up and said, I can’t ask anybody to take this work. Because of, you know, moral compass. And if everybody declines, they didn’t want to force people. So I’m very grateful for that. And I know, that’s not the experience of everyone, I would say the closest I’ve gotten is in that sales cycle, where you see how things are going and how it’s really focused on getting the deal closed.
Pei Mun Lim
And not necessarily
Liz
providing the client with the solution that you know, they need. And sometimes that sales cycle is driven by the client, right? Like their budget is not matching what they want to do, or they don’t have the resources to necessarily do it. So I don’t want to stick it all on sales. But it’s always uncomfortable for me, either on the sales side, or delivery side, putting out what they don’t think is my best work or what’s going to really make the client successful.
Pei Mun Lim
How have you dealt with that in the past.
Liz
So I’ve tried to advocate for the client as much as possible by focusing on what’s the best we can do with the constraints that we have. And ideally, if I know this isn’t going to do it, providing clients either sales in the sales cycle or the delivery side, that roadmap to get where they want to go. And setting expectations as much as you can try to set expectations with clients, because they don’t always hear it, that we’re limited here. And what we can do will make you as successful as we can, to this point with these limitations. And here’s the way you can get to where you really want to, as long as the expectations are set. I don’t think it’s so much a moral compass. concern for me. But you don’t always have teams that support that sort of talk track. Yes. Okay. Yeah,
Pei Mun Lim
I can identify with that.
Liz
Right. not unique to any of my companies just, you know, sales and consulting in general.
Pei Mun Lim
Yes, I think I think those problems are endemic to many, many consulting businesses where the driver is, as you say, utilization, billable hours, etc.
Liz
Have you
Pei Mun Lim
in your journey come across any situations where it’s been challenging for you as a woman in technology?
Liz
Yes, I would say just the situation of being a woman in technology, in general, is a bit of a challenge. In some places like IBM, I will say I didn’t feel it was that much of a challenge as it has been potentially at other places. I think just because the people hired are so technical across roles that you get a bit of credibility, just having been hired period. So
Pei Mun Lim
that
Liz
I’m, again, really grateful for. But beyond that, I’d say it depends on your teams. It’s not necessarily a company wide way of thinking but for sure, have experienced experience that sort of, I say treatment, because that’s not the right word, but have seen that lens coming from people that you’re not as technical because you’re, you’re a woman. And sometimes it’s it’s discussed as Oh, where you’re more consultative, which means you’re not, you’re not technical. And I think that shortchanges a lot of women in technology, but there’s also plenty of great teams out there who don’t feel that way. So, certainly not a complete experience.
Pei Mun Lim
That’s equate very nicely into what I’d like you to share in terms of your current role. As a director of success 360 methodology and Salesforce in how how that’s come about, from, you know, from your role that blue will in, what do you currently do in this role.
Liz
So currently focused on at a really high level improving the customer success experience for all Salesforce customers. So this is the first role I’ve had since early in my career where I haven’t been focused on the technology keys, and there’s teams focused on that piece. And I’m constantly saying, please let me know if I’m stepping on your toes, because I’m giving you all of my technical opinions. But, yeah, it’s been a great team, they’ve been really welcoming. Everybody’s really supportive of different opinions and different perspectives. For a very diverse team, which I think is great, because you do get a lot of different perspectives and get really that full picture which we want of different types of customers, and what success means to them. So very much focusing on those consultative skills, versus the technical piece, which also made me a bit nervous, but it’s been working out well so far.
Pei Mun Lim
So I, I’ve I’ve done podcasts, with a director of customer success, in what I’m trying to find out is because the titles are different. And you’re trying to understand the nuance between the different roles. So maybe, how about if you kind of talk through at a high level? The the things you do on a daily and a weekly basis? And who do you have calls with? What do you? What problems? are you solving that? That’d be? That’d be allow me to paint a picture of what you do? Yeah,
Liz
so I will say, being four weeks into my job at Salesforce, the different titles are yes, I look at the org chart, and going through, and it’s, it’s certainly not as clear as it could be. So I feel that. Um, so in terms of a Director of Customer Success, there’s the side that’s really focused on the success managers and the team that’s directly interacting with the customers. From what I’m doing, and where I’m focusing is the strategic side, on how we improve, again, that overall experience. So in relation to a role that’s a Director of Customer Success, we’re setting the tone, and then they’re applying it to, to customers. So it’s, it’s nice, and really interesting working for a company that’s large enough to have dedicated strategic goals, because you don’t get that everywhere. And focusing on that one piece of it versus consulting, where you’re all over the place all the time, is, I think key to understanding what some of those goals are versus the customer success, customer facing ones where they’re working with the client and adjusting depending on all of their needs, if that makes, if that makes sense.
Pei Mun Lim
It does. Basically, from what I’m gathering is that you set the approach. And so more strategic and tactical, the more that yes,
Liz
yes, more strategic than tactical, I’d say tactical in that part of setting the tone, setting requirements and user stories and things you get into in consulting. Right, as part of your initiative and rolling out the strategy. But yeah, beyond there, then we’re handing it to the tactical teams who implement different parts of of these programs.
Pei Mun Lim
Do you do you interface directly with clients? Or is it purely Oh,
Liz
people on my team have I haven’t gotten to that point yet, but that’s, that’s part of the plan is to connect with clients and, and get their feedback. And I’m lucky that I have a number of clients who I know have feedback in this area, but I can talk to you so I expect they’ll be talking with some of them or some other clients as I as I move forward in the role.
Pei Mun Lim
So talk to me about the different people or leaders or managers that you’ve worked with, and for during your career, the lessons that you’ve taken with you to where you are today, what are the, let’s say top three things that you’ve learned and you’ve taken to heart, in your career journey.
Liz
Sure, I’ve worked with on the consulting side and starting out in my career primarily with the marketing team, and working with marketing managers or VPS, of marketing, or in some cases, the CMO, and then end users on that when you get into the consulting world. So those are typically my main points of contact. But getting into more of the big consulting world, it a lot of times was the entry point, because that’s where they have the relationships being the technical companies. So that was a big shift. And one of those top three things I’ve learned, though, I’ve told some of the newer hires or people in intern programs is our jobs, in some cases are more therapy than they are technical implementation, because you’re getting people to talk to each other who normally don’t have the best interactions. So understanding where it is coming from understanding where marketing is coming from, and bringing that piece together, has been key for me. Because usually, the more complicated they get, the more likely there is a chance that they’re not talking to somebody. And that’s driving part of the program. So for example, I’ve had clients where they’ve been trying to do all sorts of crazy audience segmentation and marketing cloud, and they give you a list of 20 different criteria. And that typically, for me, was a signal, okay? They’re not talking to the data people or the IT people because they could 100% pull. So who else do we need to bring to the table and work through some of these these access issues and these relationship issues? Legal, is one that I’ve worked quite a bit, especially on the marketing side, when you’re getting into consent and GDPR. And all the various regulations. On the therapy piece of it, no one wants to talk to legal and especially you do not want to get an email saying they need to talk to you. So keeping that lens, in addition to having people talk to each other, knowing which stakeholders you need to bring in, and that your immediate customer may not be thinking about that. So identifying who those people are, and bringing them to the table when you’re your client might not be. Yeah, third, I would say more and more, I was working with CRM administrators and CRM users. And as a whole, marketing cloud people and Salesforce core people speak a different language, I don’t think this is a secret. Because it’s a totally different approach. And the implementation on the CRM side is very development focus. When marketing cloud, it’s more plug and play. And you’re, you’re talking to marketing people. So being able to understand enough about the cross cloud experience and the two different clouds to have those conversations and bring all of those sides together. That’s, I would say the most technical part that I experienced, especially in recent years, understanding that technology enough on both sides to say, okay, you can do this here, I can’t tell you how your CRM administrator shortly knows how to do it. So let’s talk to them about what you’re trying to accomplish. or talking to the CRM admin say, Yeah, this is possible in marketing cloud. But we need XYZ from you to make that happen. And here’s the high level how it then works once it gets over on the marketing cloud side. So again, that’s my experience as a marketing cloud, technologist. I don’t think it’s that different anymore from the larger Salesforce ecosystem. But yeah, those would be I would say, top three learnings and then top three people.
Pei Mun Lim
So let’s, let me take you to item two where you were talking about legal so what are your thoughts there? Is it to include them? House? What’s the best way to manage their relationship with legal in order to make sure that you don’t you’re not exposed in the long run. I think traditionally, as you pointed out, the relationship has been tinged with fear, basically. But it is necessary, because we’re talking about risk and exposure and things like that. How would you? How would you advise clients to just think about that and manage that, from the get go?
Liz
It’s one of the first things I talk about in discovery, whether it’s on the sales side, or the delivery side. Is that list of stakeholders, legal being one of them? And having that conversation upfront, the need to be involved? When do we involve them? If it’s a larger company, they have people focused on just the consent patients, the data privacy piece, so getting some direction from the client as to where they think they should be involved. And then just from experience, they’re saying, yeah, that seems appropriate or challenging back, and that’s too late. And it could derail the whole project by not involving them. So it’s, it’s a balancing act, for sure. And they have lots of things going on. So they don’t want to be involved in the whole things. But identifying those critical junctures where you have to get at least their buy in if not sign off, when it comes to data when it comes to any sort of consent piece when it comes to any sort of unique security concerns, or, you know, regulations depending on what industry a client’s and so financial service and healthcare life sciences, there’s a number of concerns that they have, but others don’t involve legal. That’s how I’ve handled it. And I have those stories of hey, by the way, no one talks illegal, and the project is no dead in the water until we get this fixed. So sharing some of those is usually a good motivator for other projects.
Pei Mun Lim
Absolutely. I think it’s a lot of it is cautionary tales, what not to do. Sorry, I’m just going to jump back to the I know, the role at Salesforce is quite new for you, which actually means that the whole recruitment process is fresh, as well. So I think so I have been asked, which I don’t know the answer. I know roughly, but it’d be great, from your point of view to talk through the process about how you first got to know there was an opening, there was a role there. And the the whole recruitment process, the interviews you’ve had, that how you felt along the way and and just paint a picture for us on how you got.
Liz
Yeah, so I found the job posting on LinkedIn first. So I have a number of job searches, that that were really helpful, because my last move I was really looking for that right role, not necessarily just to, to leave a company. So setting up searches that are returning the right results, I think was critical for me. And I was able through my network to be referred in which I’ve heard more and more, that’s the that’s your best chance coming from outside Salesforce and getting considered for any roles if you have someone that you can list as a referral. So that I would say for someone looking to go to Salesforce would be something I’d really, really pursue and look at your network. And just ask people because people are more than willing to help if if you ask them I found from the recruitment to hiring process, it’s it’s pretty similar to what I’ve experienced elsewhere with a couple rounds of of interviews with different people who are in your role or related to your role, so there wasn’t anything atypical. There. I thought Salesforce did a nice job of not having an overly complex process. Like everyone can look up or heard about Amazon’s process and all the steps you have to go through and and take the interview there the Google way and how they interview but that Salesforce was pretty straightforward and respectful of everyone’s time. And my recruiter was great. My primary point of contact because she provided me with With insight as to what each step would be, I can always call her up and talk about how to prepare or get her feedback on where to focus, she was always quick with returning any feedback she got. So I would say the process was fairly painless, honestly, just because of how, how smoothly at once and again how respectful they were of, of time. So there was no full day, round of interviews, like you may have have elsewhere. And then from there, onboarding picks up, which is great, and they have the whole program that gets you set up with your computer, and all of those pieces you need to get started on your first first day. So I had a really positive experience. And especially when you consider the typical tech experience for interviewing.
Pei Mun Lim
Absolutely. So in four weeks in anything that confirm to you how great it is, or any surprises Oh, my goodness, I didn’t realize they did this. Yeah. Anything of those kinds that you’re able to share.
Liz
So from the consulting side, there were always those things we suspected, like is the Salesforce doing on this? How are they routing this? Or how did this end up coming to us? So it was funny being on the inside saying, Oh, now I understand. That happens. So that part, that part was funny. Yeah, I found it to be I would say even better than I expected, because I’ve been in the the ecosystem for a long time. And to me, Salesforce was always a leader in caring about the larger community and doing good, not just making a profit. And I found that to be very true from inside the company that they live, what they what they preach. So especially with COVID, one of the things I was looking for was a company with that with as bit of a work life balance as you can have right now and supportive of people’s needs outside the company. And I found that with Salesforce. So that piece lived up to my expectations if not exceeded them. That in terms of overall company and structure, I don’t think there were any particularly scary moments or, or anything, it’s a lot of the same big company stuff, that you have big companies that have had a lot of acquisitions, and you’re trying to work through all these different perspectives and different teams. So pretty, pretty standard if you’ve been in that world, right?
Pei Mun Lim
Thank you. And I want to be respectful of your time. But just to kind of close up, I would like to know a little bit about what your personal values are, and how they aligned to where you currently work. So you’ve already mentioned work life balance. So what else what other values are key for you. And you also talked earlier on about making sure that your next role was the right one. And how you obviously being Salesforce ecosystem going to the mothership seemed to be the ultimate goal for many people. But what values that align for you that that this made you think this, this was the right choice,
Liz
transparency and trust, because those two go together is a big one. For me. It’s the approach that I’ve always tried to take with my clients. And I was never that person who only told clients what they wanted to hear, which can go a variety of different ways. So I know how tough it is. But I found Salesforce to be very transparent, as transparent as they can be with employees and with customers and really focusing on developing trust, which especially I think in this environment with everything going on and people stress levels is is critical. Being able to trust that you’re in good hands, and that people will will tell you but through best like for me like some work life balance is big and also giving back is is huge for me, because I recognize how lucky I’ve been and have always tried to give back where I can. So the fact that Salesforce encourages that and then has volunteer time off so you can Go and get back to the community. And we’ve done team efforts of volunteering. And there’s even a volunteering exercise as part of your onboarding, where you all do some volunteer work together. That’s very much in line with my values. And again, with the state of the world, the fact that Salesforce steps out and takes positions on things versus the typical corporate speak, was really attractive to me. And as part of why I’ve stayed in the ecosystem in general, as long as I have, is that tends to cascade to partners and customers.
Pei Mun Lim
Yes, I see a lot of in ohana. And only things that that’s being done within community. And the trailblazers, and also saw the CEO does, has been very inspiring. So I just want to thank you, Liz for taking the time to talk to me, especially about the journey that you’ve gone through. I think it’s really, really fascinating on how you got to where you are in the journey. You’ve taken lessons you’ve taken along the way that I think a lot of my listeners and audience will be able to take away and learn something from. Thank you so much. I really
Liz
thank you so much. Thank you for having me. You