My conversation with Vicki Moritz-Henry, #Salesforce Architect and Certified Instructor of Season 2 Episode 15 of my podcast is now live!
This amazing lady has done so much for the #ohana as part of Supermums, but she has managed to carve out a career that fits around her passion (Salesforce of course!), the type of work she loves doing (consulting, training and freelancing!) and parenthood!
It’s not easy, and it can feel like an impossible dream to those who are just entering the ecosystem.
How can you
– play with super fun technology and platform
– do amazing work
– be financially independent
– have flexibility to choose who to work with, what to do and where to do it
– have time to enjoy your personal life and family?
Well, you’re going to want to listen in and find out as Vicki talks about her journey and what helped her get to where she is today.
Enjoy!
@OnThePeiroll
Transcript
Pei Mun Lim 0:05
Hello, and welcome to another episode of OnThePeiroll, my podcast where I talk about leadership, project delivery, project management, Salesforce consulting, delivering great projects with great people and careers. In today’s episode, I speak to Vicki Morris-Henry. I hope I pronounced that right. She is an interesting person because she has carved a niche for herself. So not only, not only is she an authorized Salesforce trainer, but she’s also a consultant. And she does freelancing, she, she gets to pick and choose the kinds of things that interest her. And she has, I believe, started working from home before all the COVID things happen. And she is someone who believes quite strongly that is important to be able to be then take care of your family and have different roles within your partnership in the house, so that you create the life that’s right for your family and not one that is dictated by work. So it was a very fascinating conversation with Vicki. And I really hope that you’ll enjoy this. Hello, and good afternoon, Vicki.
Welcome to my podcast. It’s called OnThePeiroll. And I’m really glad that you’ve made the time to talk to me today. How are you feeling?
Vicki 1:45
Good. Thanks. And thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here today. I’ve just been thinking about your profile and the things that you’ve done and how interesting. Your journey has been in particularly how you currently operating. So why don’t we start by by you just telling me your story about you can start wherever you like. But the thing that’s interesting is your journey within the ecosystem. Absolutely. Yeah, if we go too far back, we’re going to go back to the days where I was a bio major and university and minister and up years. That might be a little bit too far. But yes, I I’ve done a lot of transitioning throughout my career. And I think it’s because I always like learning new things. And that’s what I feel like it drew me to Salesforce because there’s always something new to learn. And yes, so I was a bio major way back in the day learned French and changed over to a French major and found myself in France. And then I was an online English teacher for quite a few years. And that’s my first introduction to Salesforce was that I became part of the academic operations team. And we were all Salesforce users, but they weren’t using it particularly well. So a bunch of us found trailhead and started a mini challenge with it between ourselves and the company. And having a slight competitive spirit myself. I ended up keeping to getting badges. And it wasn’t necessarily my goal to become a Salesforce administrator or even to become Salesforce certified right away. But it was just something that was so interesting to me to see how our business could adopt it more how we could get more out of it. And then it the the snowball kept rolling down the hill. At that point, it just was something where I was really interested in it got certified and then join supermom so shortly afterwards, and then spent about three years in workforce development helping other people because as soon as I came through and learned myself as like, this is an awesome career for moms who are juggling kids at home and learning something else. And it’s something that you can upscale in and to learn and become certified yourself. And even with my colleagues that I was learning with that she asked me what my ideal role would be in helping moms to do the same thing. So it was a great experience. And then since then, I’ve moved on into consultancy and training myself. So after having spent a while in the workforce development space, I realized I really liked the tech side of the projects and wanted to dig into that a little bit more myself. So now I do implementation projects, things like that and still do the training because I love teaching at the end of the day. That’s just what makes me happy. So I’m a certified instructor and do the boot kit. The boot camps with Trailhead Academy. So it’s a really nice mix.
Pei Mun Lim 4:50
Oh, very cool. Can you start where did you Where do you come from? Because you’re not. You’re French you’re not French?
Vicki 4:57
No, that’s a question I get quite a bit actually because people are like you would have an American accent you live in France and you work mostly in the UK, what? Where are you? So I’m originally from New Jersey in the US and went to university there. And then just after university moved to France, and I’ve been here for 12 years now. So my husband is French, my kids go to school here. And I work in English still a lot. So it’s a very interesting mix. How do you see people in terms of business working cultures you? It sounds like you’ve not actually worked with Americans in America? Is that that be fair to say. In my teaching careers, I was based in the US and working from France, but with an American team. So I’ve been remote for a while. Okay, okay. So okay, so then you’re well placed on this question. And how do you find a different culture and working styles and behavior, you’ve got the Americans with French and in got the British, is there any way you can, I wouldn’t say stereotype but broadly, say, the different cultural values and approach to work. This versus this versus this. I’d say that it taking this land of remote working, for example, and pre COVID times because now we’re all adapting to remote work. But it’s a pre COVID times I had been remote working for eight years as a teacher before. Since around 2011, I’ve been remote working so quite a while now. And the different reactions, I got to that, in the US people are more spread out in the country. And I think that has a lot to do with it. And the remote working, they were quicker adopters of it. So remote working was much more common and much more accepted. Whereas in the UK, it was a little bit of a mix in between the two, there was a little bit more of an adaption of a hybrid model, potentially, but not very much full remote working, even though that was what I was doing out of the UK. But still I was I’d say that the mentality wasn’t quite there yet. And then the French outside were even farther behind that. So there was no talk really of remote working, you didn’t see as many remote working positions. And I found that just that one topic across the three countries almost showed a little bit about the working culture, that around the flexibility involved in it as well that the France was very much so you come to an office, you sit down and you do your work, where you travel to different places. And again, I think the size of the countries comes into play. Because if you’re traveling in the US and you have to go from East Coast to West Coast, that’s a couple hours plane ride. Whereas if even if you’re driving in France, you can drive up and down from top to bottom and about, I don’t know, maybe nine hours. Okay, how about the approach to Now I wouldn’t say consulting, because you were your only sort of consulting bit later on in now you’re working mostly with the UK? Market? My right. Yes, my consultancy. I work with the UK market. And actually, for my teaching, I’m based in the US. So I do courses for a lot of us clients over there. Okay. So I also know, we talked about this, that you the way work life balance and the way that you operate is not the norm. So a couple of reasons. One is, even though you know you’re subcontracting, but in actual fact, it’s more like freelancing as opposed to contracting. So in the in the consulting space, you’re either permanent, you’re contracting, or you’re freelancing. So you’re kind of in the middle, where you are your own boss, you set your own time in your schedule, and you’ve got two partners who kind of need your expertise for specific projects. Plus, you have your training. So you’ve got so many things that you’re juggling, you don’t have a boss that tells you what you’ve got to do. And you’ve got kids. Tell me how you manage all of that without this keeling over and oh my goodness.
Pei Mun Lim 9:36
I think what I love about it is the variety and that’s what I was really looking for is being able to not be pigeonholed into one role or one position and have the same type of work all the time. I really I have gotten into dev and coding and love doing that part of things. I’ve been in marketing automation for a while and marketing cloud and Pardot. I also know really well I’m like getting into those projects and digging into how you can help a, an organization to improve their marketing techniques and their lead nurture. And that’s what also what I teach in. And, and I absolutely love teaching, that’s what gets me going at the end of the day. I like sharing things with others. And even when I’m working on client projects that like to do the train, the trainer technique, a lot of teaching them how to do things for themselves so that I’m leaving a lasting effect on their organization. And I’d say that working with all three, it allows me to do a little bit of everything and keep me really interested and keep me learning. And the reason why I went towards it was because I was working with a coach a while back. And he was absolutely amazing and asked me now that I knew I was going to be transitioning into something else, what did my ideal position looked like? And I said, Well, actually, I really liked this whole certified instructor thing of teaching these classes and teaching these boot camp styles, especially a there’s the trailhead live sessions, where I get to teach out free content to a huge audience and really just get knowledge out there. And then I also really liked this tech side where I get to be all geeky, sitting up in my office by myself and coding away. And I said, well, a mix of those and being able to do a little bit of everything. And I thought that wasn’t going to be possible when I first went out into the consultancy world. And just going through and like the first offers and things like that, and the positions I was getting contacted about, they were all full time in one role. And they all sounded really great. And I was excited about them. But there was always something holding me back. And it was the lack of variety in the roles. So that’s where I like doing my own thing and kind of found what works for me. And now for the classes I’m teaching, I block off my time and I found I’d have to be really strict on time management. So I block out chunks of time. And I’m able to handle multiple projects from the different consultancies as well, and even be a just a knowledge resource as well. So to help other people on my team and point them in the right direction, if I can. When you talk about your life right now, I’m sure a lot of people would think, wow, that’s the dream, roll to be to have the kind of variety to be your own boss to manage things and pick out what interests you. How about somebody coming in from, let’s say, yoga teacher wanting to pivot with interest in the product in technology? What would you say to someone like that now, hmm, in terms of wild things that they can do to get to kind of where you are. Observe everything and everybody around you, I’d say that my exposure, being able to when I was in my role and workforce development, I got to do a little bit of everything, I got to do partnership management and talk to different consultancies about what did work, what didn’t work on projects, just get exposure to projects. And getting your foot in the door. And getting exposure to those types of situations is so powerful, and what helps to get me to where I am now. So just saying yes, to opportunities to sit in on meetings to observe to shadow different people, and being very open to all of that. And also, I’d say that, probably it’s hard to get straight from transitioning from a yoga teacher to where I am now, there’s a lot that goes in between those steps. So it is finding that first role that might be full time somewhere, whether it’s going into consultancy straightaway, or being an end user or whatever that first role is, but just getting acclimated to what Salesforce is what the project is getting more experience under your belt. And that way you can make those decisions and have a little bit more flexibility to do what you want later on.
That’s a really good, really good advice for someone who’s new. How about for yourself, if you can think back and you had a time machine. And you could visit the young you as you just starting? Is there any specific piece of advice you’d tell yourself that could make these easy? Yeah, if I could have told myself that Salesforce existed earlier. When I was in university, I took one computer science class and I really enjoyed it but didn’t see it leading to like, roles and I feel like at least in the US, especially in the university So I don’t know if it’s the same everywhere, you have this idea that you’re following your major, and that specialty that you’re going through. And I wasn’t necessarily thinking enough about what my actual job was going to look like afterwards. And that’s where I went into teaching. And it was great for a while. But I was stuck in the role of an online teacher for a while and wasn’t able to move in management. And, yeah, I’ve spent quite a few years feeling stuck before actually transitioning into Salesforce. So if I went back and talked to my younger self, I’d probably say, to look for something else a little bit faster, or try to transition towards the tech space a little bit faster. That being said, I can like twiddle my thumbs because I like I said, I was like learning new things. But I had actually started University and a master’s program for Anglophone literature, and was thinking of becoming a professor before realizing that jobs for that role in France are very far and few between. And then most people who actually went through the program ended up having to move to Belgium to find a role. So it’s that like, thinking about the end goal, and where do I want to be in an actual job role in the real world? And not just focusing on the now and what I’m learning what I’m studying what I’m interested in? Okay, thank you for that. How about we move forward slightly. So you’ve already you’re already now in the Salesforce world? Did you Is there anything you would advise yourself at that point, to accelerate your process into where you are now? I think that’s a hard one. Because we always have so many different experiences that make us who we are, and help us to get to where we are. So I don’t think necessarily that I could have accelerated things in any way. And that was definitely my path that I took. But it’s not the only path to get to where I am. So other people may because I have the teaching background, I think that sways a lot of my decisions. And because I really enjoy that aspect of the role, but I could definitely see somebody coming in really easily into a consultancy directly. And then just learning so much. So if you’re really looking for that learning curve and accelerating things, I’d say going into a consultancy is definitely a good choice. It is a hard choice to go into that because things move very fast. So yes, it always depends on each person. And I think where I got to and the way I got to where I am right now was right for me. But the the one piece that I did a quite a bit of but could have potentially done even quicker was get involved with the community. So just there’s so many people in the Salesforce Ohana and the Salesforce community that were are really helpful and really impactful. And just being surrounded by that support network is really helpful to help accelerate or guide you on your journey to where you want, wherever you want to go. It sounds like your your desire to help people can be you know, just by just by listening to your answer that let’s go to your, your role at say supermoms, for example, because you were helping other moms, you said earlier to help other moms get to where you are, what was it? Talk to me about that experience that what was it like for you to
to be in that role? Yes. So it was a really varied experience because I was one of the first people well, the first person to come full time into the team and really to grow a program. So I think that was a very unique experience of growing a program so that it’s in different regions, different countries, like we launched, launched in the US and AIPAC all over the place and we’re different programs. So it was a very fast paced environment. And I feel like because of that I can go into the consultancy world and feel a little bit more comfortable with that fast paced environment. So definitely helped there. And just the the variety of people that I got to meet and everything like that, like I said, I did a little bit of everything. So I did sponsorships and talk to big four heads and different consultancy partners about getting projects for the training is and just being able to get a better feel for how the Salesforce ecosystem works all over the place and how all of the different moving parts connect to each other and even the relationships within Salesforce themselves. So understanding Salesforce as a company is very different as well. Sounds like a very interesting role that you got into what are the things that you’ve learned during your journey? In the ecosystem that you think other people might find useful to know, actually, I had a message on LinkedIn, I shared this with somebody just the other day. But you can’t know everything. That’s one of the biggest things. Because when you come in, you just get imposter syndrome. And you feel like there’s so much to know, and how am I ever going to know everything? And the answer is, you’re not, you’re going to get really good at Google, you’re going to get really good at going out into the community, knowing the right person still shoulder to tap on and be like, Oh, I have this problem, I think you might have had the same. Do you know the answer? Would you be able to point me in the right direction, and just all of those resources. So I think that that’s definitely a big part of it. So not to feel too overwhelmed, and to reach out for help. Yeah, and I think it was when I was a part of my role at supermums was volunteer management. And I got to talk to everybody who’s interested in becoming a mentor. And I got to teach speak to a whole variety of people. And I think when it actually hit me was when I spoke to somebody who was an architect, like, had been in the ecosystem for an impressive number of years had a very impressive number of certifications and projects behind them and everything like that. And we were talking about it and she was going, well, actually, I feel impostor syndrome, too. And I feel like I don’t know everything is going well. You’re an architect, like you’re supposed to know everything she does. Oh, absolutely not any architect will tell you, they don’t know everything. Because it’s just too big. There’s too much out there. So I think it’s very easy to get overwhelmed. Especially if you go on trailhead, you look at how many modules are there are out there, and you’re like, Oh, I’m never going to do all of those. So, yeah, it helps with that feeling of overwhelmed that you’re not the only person out there thinking the same thing and that no matter what role, what level people are at, that everybody’s kind of feeling the same thing. So you mentioned just now that going on Trailhead can make people feel overwhelmed. And to be honest, that’s how I feel sometimes this. And also not only that, but the number of certs that’s come up. Obviously, there’s a few major ones like the admin and the sales, Cloud Service Cloud, when I got started in the CRM space on Microsoft space, it was really easy because he had marketing, sales and service. And that was kind of a core. And when Salesforce started, it was still just those as a core. But you can’t call Marketing Marketing without Marketing Cloud. To be honest, it was just the lead object, I think in there. But now it’s grown so much and so wide, someone just coming in to wrap their head around. I want to be here, but this is just too much into overwhelming. What would you advise them be?
Yeah, to start small, you Trailhead is huge. And I know when I started on it, there were less modules. So a little less underwhelming, overwhelming, but still, there was quite a bit there on Friday. And there’s a lot of trail mixes already created. They call them trail mixes. But it’s like a nice mix of different modules and projects, and just basically your badges that you can get on Salesforce or on Trailhead. And there is are some made by Salesforce around had been beginner admin, intermediate admin advanced. And that’s how I started, I stayed with those. And it’s really hard to stay on those, actually. Because each time you finish one, it’s adjusts other ones for you. And you’re like, Oh, I might have to go down this rabbit hole. And, oh, there’s one on monks and meditation. Let me just go and do that one real quick. But staying focused on what you’re actually trying to learn that and trying to learn one thing at a time, not trying to learn everything, not trying to learn sales service experience, cloud marketing cloud all at once. But just picking one thing that you’re going to focus in on Learn as much as you can around that before moving on to the next. And I’d almost say that that’s where I have 12 certifications right now. And I’ve actually gotten, there’s a lot of talk in the community about whether certifications are good thing or not. And some people are against them and say, Well, I’ve been doing this job for years, and I don’t have any or I have one and other people who do the search Chase and have no real life experience, but have maybe five certifications. And I’d say that it’s about finding a nice mix in between the two, because I found that a use Trailhead to study for a certification as well. And that almost gives you that guidance of saying, Okay, this is what I’m studying for right now. This is the space that I’m focusing on. And then gradually working towards that goal of saying actually, I do know my stuff. And that’s what the certification is proving. And it’s almost something for you as much as for other people because you’re saying, Okay, I do feel comfortable enough to go out and do a Marketing Cloud project or I do feel comfortable enough to go out and do an experience Cloud project. And again, it comes back to that fact that you don’t need to know everything. There is Google and Just like that. So when you’re on a certification, you don’t have Google. But when you’re on an actual project to do that, that leads me neatly to my next question, because we’re talking about overwhelm. Do you ever get overwhelmed? And if you do, what do you do? Definitely, I think everybody gets overwhelmed at some point. And especially when you’re a mom, I have three kids. And I do quite a bit. And I like to volunteer in the Salesforce space as well. So it’s not all about getting a paycheck. At the end of the month, I like to give back and I do a couple different volunteer projects. And I’d say that it’s really easy to get overwhelmed. And it’s important to make time for everything. So you actually have to block out time and say, No, this is the time where I’m offline, I’m off the grid, I’m with my family, we’re going to go out hiking for the day. And I’m not going to touch Salesforce, I’m not going to touch work, because otherwise, there’s always so many things going on, that it’s really easy to get caught up in that I have to be everywhere and do everything. So it’s about knowing what’s important to you and prioritizing as well. And I found that that helps with overwhelm. It doesn’t mean that I don’t get overwhelmed sometimes, but it helps definitely. So we mentioned earlier on about the fact that you’re in France, in the social support structure allows paternity for her husband to help look after the kids. How does, you know? You mentioned wanting to normalize this a little bit more, but it is unusual, is it not? It is
and I’d say that I’m very lucky to be in France, and that they have this option for us in the first place. But they open it up to both parents. So it could be the mom or the dad. And that’s what we’re starting to see some companies moving towards more and more is opening up leave for parental leave in general. And this idea of parental leave rather than maternity or paternity leave. And I know at the time of this recording, it was just International Women’s Day. So we’re talking a lot about gender equality, and everything like that lately. But that’s been a really great move as far as companies go towards gender equality. But then, even if these options have been there, there’s not very many people taking them, a lot of it falls on to the mom style, it’s mom taking maternity leave. And my husband took six months with our first and it was actually because in my current in my position at that time, I wasn’t in Salesforce yet. And I couldn’t take maternity leave, I was working for a US company and it was a very short maternity leave. They’re not obligated to give maternity leave in the US so that most people got like two weeks, I managed to get around two months. So I had eight weeks of maternity leave. And we actually took that part off at the same time. And then he continued on afterwards. And then in France, it’s progressive with each kid. So with my second he took off nine months. And then with our third, he’s actually taking off three years with them. So yeah, it’s been a really big conversation as well, because my oldest is eight years old now. So that was eight years ago that we did the first one. And just the comments that he got, even from his colleagues and things like that, it was, Oh, that’s nice, you’re going to be on paternity leave. So you’re going to be able to go out bike riding all the time, or like, you’re gonna have all of this free time. And now it’s starting to normalize just a little bit. And the conversation has changed, like you notice less of those types of comments. But it is still very much so that Oh, you must have all of this free time. And he’s like actually snowing with the kids all day, I’m actually taking care of them. And I know that for my daughters. It’s such a powerful conversation to have with their friends or with other people that that’s the one who makes dinner while mom’s upstairs working and she comes down for dinner at night, things like that. It’s just that they say that seeing yourself somewhere, it helps to be able to normalize that conversation and just be able to project yourself and I feel like as we’re moving more towards gender equality and all of these great initiatives, it’s having people actually take them up on it. And yeah, I know my situation is very different from other people’s but it’s been what works for us at the end of the day, too. So are you saying that even in France, your setup is unusual? Oh, yes. Yes. Not everybody takes them up on the full maternity leave. So it definitely depends on the person and position everything like At. But, yes, it’s definitely more so the mum who takes maternity leave and very uncommon for the dad to sew it even in France and in France, we have the option to do that in the first place. And I know some other countries that bit depending on the rules that you might not even have the option to take that long paternity a parent parental leave in general, but definitely, it’s out of the norm. What would you say your strengths are? Um, I feel like we’ve been on the topic of multitasking, so much just juggling, that might be one of I think your strengths always have a tendency of reflecting your values. And like you had said before, my values are around helping people and really just wanting to do good and like leave, I leave your mark, and leave something good behind. So I feel like that’s probably my strengths. And what’s always guiding me is how can I help other people along? How can I support other people, just the wit same way they support me, and even for your kids, always thinking about how you want the world to be for them, and how you can make those little changes where you are, that’s going to make the world a better place and make maybe a little bit easier for them when they get there. I think being a parent is very good in helping make those sort of decisions. Because I was my next question is what’s your full decision making style? Like? It sounds like you’re you’re quite far forward thinking plus being guided by
you know, your children, for example. Would you would you say that that’s accurate or? Absolutely, yeah, just thinking about how I would want to be treated by other people as well goes into my decision making a lot. And I’m very, I know about this about myself. It’s not always a strength. But sometimes it’s a weakness too, but I’m very empathetic, and always have a tendency of putting myself in the other person’s shoes. So that guides my reactions to things and gets guides my decisions quite a bit around how I engage with other people. Have you ever been in like a situation? Where are you with? Yeah, the dilemma around decisions that caused you sleepless nights. Are you had any of those moments? Yeah, definitely. I think that probably all of us have those at some point. But yeah, definitely have had a few of those. And yet, that’s where you have the thinking about, like, it puts it into perspective to think down the road and think about, like, how would I want my kids to react in this position or something like that? So yes, the answer is yes. I’ve been in those positions before. So that was a closed question. So if I tend to do an open question, are you able to share some what they were and how you went through them? Yeah, I’d say just for anonymity sake, I won’t go into specific details, I wouldn’t want to. I’m not that type of person. I like to air my dirty laundry in public. I’d say that the only reactions and the only thing you control is your actions and your reactions, and you’re never going to be able to control somebody else. At the end of the day, you’re never going to be able to change somebody who doesn’t want to be changed. So that realization has helped a lot because I’m like, Okay, well, instead of thinking about what I’d like to change about this other person or about the situation, it’s more productive for me to think about what I can do, what are the actions that I can take to actually make a difference, or change the situation for myself, if that’s what needs to happen, or even to make a statement into or something like that. So, yeah, it’s more about focusing on what you can actually do, rather than getting swept away and the Oh, I wish it were this way. That takes a lot of emotional maturity, because a lot of people do get swept up in the feeling around injustice, for example, or or somebody not behaving or you know, following a structure of behavior that you think is acceptable, for example, or cause of actions and you’re talking about change. I’ve been in a few of those in your thinking, that’s not the way somebody should behave. But at the end, the only thing you can control is your own self. You Yeah, it is. And it’s, I say it took me a long time to get to that place. It doesn’t come easily. And maybe going back to that question about what what I would tell my younger self is maybe that lesson, but I don’t know, I would if I would have listened to myself. So it’s actually going through those situations. And yeah, you have to learn the hard way, don’t you? A lot of us do. I think that learning the hard way is the only way the lesson sticks. Right. Okay, tell me about what you would like when you were younger? In Are you still the same? Or Has anything changed? Yeah. So when I was younger, I’m exactly like my oldest daughter. My husband kind of teases me all the time about that. He’s like, Oh, yeah, she does that. And you I’m sure you were the exact same way, from all the stories I hear about you, you were the exact same way. I was really quiet. I was really introverted to the point where teachers in class would say like, in my all my report cards, like Vicki doesn’t speak loud enough in class for us to understand what she’s saying. So I was very, very shy growing up, and I love to read, like, that’s the part that still with me is I would always have a book with me. And I’d go to like two restaurants and bring a backpack with a little bug in it. And I would never be without one. So that has definitely carried over into my love of learning now is that I like to be learning something new. I like to be reading, I like to be hearing stories about other people’s experience. And so yeah, I’ve read everything from fiction to nonfiction and everything else in between. So basically anything to get my hands on.
And it’s funny to say that in your child, too, that we’ve heard her say the exact same way, my oldest one, the same way about a bug. And, yeah, that now I do a lot more public speaking and things like that. And it was really hard to get out of my shell and do that. So I’d say that’s like a hurdle that I managed to get over at some point. And I don’t know when that happened, or like, what helps it I think, probably teaching and like having that structured setting where you’re transferring knowledge and have a reason to get up in front of people and share your knowledge with them helps. And then, yeah, just that desire to share and help other people and knowing that actually, if I go out and tell my story on a podcast, like right now, or something like that, that I might actually be able to make a difference for somebody later on or impact somebody in a certain way or make it easier for them. So yeah, that’s definitely something that’s changed. The reading hasn’t the the shyness and being able to speak above a whisper What are you currently reading? I forget the name of the book. Actually, I It’s a Kafka on the shore.
Vicki 37:57
Oh, my bedtime reading? Yeah, I am really enjoying it quite a bit. Okay,
Pei Mun Lim 38:04
thank you. Um, you talked about being quiet. I mean, it sounds like that something people may misunderstand about you. Is there anything else do you think when you hear oh, I’m not like that. Why did they think that I was like that? Are there things that people misunderstand about you? In a way you conduct yourself? I’m not quite sure without knowing what other people are thinking. What they’re thinking about you. But yeah, I I’d say that even the quiet aspect, like that’s something that I still use a little bit. And even in my teaching, and in Project workshops, I’ll sit back and take it in so that I can give input and things like that. And even this is going to sound bad from a teacher, but even creating a little bit of the awkward silences so that people have time to process information themselves. So a lot of times as a teacher you have a habit of and not you in particular, just in general, will have a habit of wanting to give the answer right away. So we ask a question. And then if somebody doesn’t have the answer, right, right away, we go ahead and give it where as I like to create that silent moment and be comfortable with the silence and give people time to think and process and that’s where the actual learning happens to. So I think it’s about knowing how to sit back a little bit. And that’s one of the things that I still use to this day. And one of the things that I definitely encourage is giving people the time to to process what they’re thinking and even when you’re conducting a workshop, allowing that moment of silence and knowing that silence actually isn’t a bad thing. Like we think of it as a bad thing, but it’s actually not I’m loving the answer. I pretty much want to be mindful of your time. But just before we finish, how do people know when you are stressed? Like, stressed? Well, you know, how how can you tell? And what does she do or your kids do to de stress you? Um, well, I know my body reacts to stress, like, that’s what I know about myself. And actually, one of the things that I’ve had to deal with in these past years and when I was in university as well is that when I get stressed out, I get really a sick stomach and like almost stomach ulcers and have to deal with some health issues around it. So that’s when I know that my body is saying, Actually, you need to slow down, you need to make a change. There’s something here right now that’s not working for you. And those are the big moments of change in my life, I’d say is when like you’re getting to that moment of being so stressed out that is that it’s reacting on your body. But that’s probably how my kids know I’m stressed do is when like, oh, mommy’s really tired all the time, or like back hurts or something like Pat. And then. Yeah, to de stress I, my kids are great. And I absolutely loved spending time with them. So it’s actually like, taking the time to play and things like that, I find that I’m always happiest when I take the time to let loose and have fun playing with the kids and get into their games and stuff like that. I know, that’s not everybody’s thing. But I’m still a kid at heart. So I wish my kidneys are small. And I’m not a huge and hoping. Yeah, I’m not looking forward to. They’re not allowed to. I knew I knew when they were little, I had twin boys, and they were all over me. And I needed this one plan. So I’m feeling quite, quite smothered. And then at the same time thinking, I’m gonna miss this. And now, they both still really sweet and they’ve also let me just jump on them. My eldest one just the other day, you know, I was in the front yard, I remember was I was teeming with stress. And he came, came behind me and it’s not that elbowing my shoulder and go like, this is so good. So you know, I think it’s great for de stressing. Yeah, I was 40 year old learned massage techniques the other day at school and was coming in and like, like, do you want me to give you a little massage and like massaging your fingers and stuff like that it’s so much fun when they, they need to keep that,
too. They need to help Help yourself. So Vicki, thank you so so much for spending the time to talk to me on this podcast, it’s been quite an amazing journey just to hear you move different countries and how you won’t say pioneered but you know, you want to first want to move into the remote learning, working environment, plus also what you’re doing in your family and showcasing the fact that look, you know, our family life, the way that we’ve structured works for us, and it should be something we should carry on talking about because we shouldn’t stick with a conventional, you know, go to the office, and the men are the ones who are the breadwinners and you know, so on and so forth, then you can break it up more. I’m so glad I had the opportunity to have that conversation with you. And also I know, we are a little bit over time. So I am so appreciative of your generosity, not only on this podcast, but also in the ecosystem in general. All banks, it was a lot of fun coming on and chatting about everything from from start to finish. Absolutely. I really appreciate that. Thanks, Vicki.
You’re welcome.