OnThePeiroll Podcast #17 – Kamaljeet Singh Matharu (Kam)

Episode 17 of my #podcast with Kamaljeet Singh Matharu (Kam) a #Salesforce Functional Lead at Cognizant.

It was a very human conversation.

We talked about identity and recovering from redundancies, and the fear of financial insecurity.

We touched on how COVID has affected so many, especially those in India and what we can do to try and help.

We delved into how those in the West can work with offshore teams, especially in India.

I invite you to listen in on our conversation, link 👇🏻.

You might learn something new today.

#OnThePeiroll

Transcript

Pei Mun Lim 

Hello, Kam, welcome to my podcast OnThePeiroll. How are you today?

Kam 

I am very well. And again, if I think this is our of the longtime meeting, and great to meet you again, thank you.

Pei Mun Lim 

That’s right. Thank you. We met when I was doing induction for Capgemini. No. And now we’ve got an opportunity for longer, longer conversation about, hopefully some topics that both of us will find very interesting. Yeah, sure, definitely. Now, what I, what I’m really, really interested to know is about your journey from where you have been to where you are today. And I think the narrative on how you’ve got to this particular point would be quite interesting. Because I see from your profile, you’ve done well consulting in different areas. So if you can just give us a story of comm basically, that’d be great. Yeah, definitely.

Kam 

Yeah. Let’s let me let me spend some time on it. Let’s see. Yeah, so Ken is a civil engineer, like I’ve done civil engineering back in India. And even I started it as a as a very much into hobby. I saw my brother playing games and on computers with the big box and you know, there was a kind of a Tom and Jerry playing on it on a computer. This is how I picked up actually it and, and then jumping into computer hardware, networking, and and learning the professional courses on it. And that was from basic to one year, diploma studio diplomas kind of stuff, basically. Right. And then from there, I jumped on hardware, networking, training, and then software development. So I picked up some software development skills from India, and spent a lot I think, two years I spent in the whole training plus development and the whole North India, I covered like, nine to 11 states where I met a lot, a lot of engineering students were working on Microsoft technologies. And that time, Google was also on talking about between 2002 to 2006. You know, like, Microsoft Millennium was coming and you know, thereafter New Tech, Microsoft moving with 2000. And all that. Yeah, it was it was a great thing, certifications and stuff recently started with Microsoft. so heavily involved with engineering students, plus, obviously improving my skills in development and in database. And then the time comes to come to UK with my missus. And then and then, yeah, we started, kind of I started in a completely new journey, couldn’t speak English, that time, even one of the company, they said, Sorry, can we can’t continue with you. And it’s not in my CV. But but that was actually it was it was like, went down and then went up. So it’s five days later, they said cam you should not go to as a trainer should start somewhere, you know, where you can involve with with daily talking, and you can do your practice, and up in Blackberry, and so yeah, this is where I started from level one, level two, and solutions and enterprise, post sales, pre sales, travelled to Europe, traveled to Middle East traveled to back in India to do the project and spent six years in securities, Microsoft, sorry, mobile apps and databases a lot and then talking to clients running the big ever sessions with it directors and Help Help Desk teams and training them on Product Solutions, how this will work, work closely with the with the sales teams as well and done a bit of pre sales work with them, where where the sales, you know, needs to be done. It was a learning point. I haven’t done much but but I did a lot of travels around around the you know, Europe and in Middle East and around UK, different areas. But yeah, it was good. So then I move made redundant move to contracting and you’re less you know, what happened the fall in blackberry and we all moved on. And from there then then bit of hiccups started with contracting and trying to find the right right area for me. Because you know, I had already a mixture. So by that time I had developed experience, I had mobile security databases, talking to clients. So I had like, I already built kind of four different skills, right? Where I can help the businesses, right? And, and this is where I got caught with another company where they said, Can we have a Microsoft CRM dynamic? I said, Okay, why are you talking to me? Because they said you have a VB Visual Basic experience. Why don’t you pick up this project? Right. Okay. So it was API integration. I think that was the entry to like, let’s say that Salesforce is waiting for me, somebody’s waiting for me, oh, Campbell, contact us. But I went there as a Microsoft, I was looking for developers, and they provide developer outsourcing basically. So we can work on that API for. So I ended up talking to the guy and he said, Here is Salesforce, start learning, get into See if you can get a job, got a job application support, went into application support, where a lot of migrations were happening between Siebel Oracle, and dotnet plus Salesforce people were moving away from Siebel moving away from Oracle from, like, I would say, in the legacy system to the new ones and, and started with admin support, and then back back to admin support, you have to learn the product to get you know, to go to your next future then right. So and then slowly picked up again. That was good times I spent with Vodafone again, and I learned a lot different projects and learnings about the you know, whole journey about Salesforce, then again, redundancies happen in Vodafone, which is fine. It’s it’s a part of game we learned I learned twice, basically about redundancies, which is I’m exploiting it. So happened i can i can guide you on that as well. So and then end up in contracting again, and spend two and a half years but I picked up as a Salesforce skill for contracting worked as a consultant as a Yeah, like I was very hands on consultant initially, like a lot of admin skills and Viking, I did two jobs admin and business flows and how it should work and all that. And then then obviously, I wanted to switch to service industry. Very mission big mission to get as a end user to service industry. It’s it’s very critical. Not easy. I got no from every booth, sorry, cam, sorry, no, your contractor now, you need more experience. And you know, like, it’s challenging with the package challenging with this and that, but nobody wants to straightaway accept you as a service because they want to train you, I realized slowly I know what Now I know why they were saying no, but because there is a there is a difference. Right is, you know, it’s it’s it’s understanding, but then got job in service industry. And it was a good learning again, and it’s I’m in service industry now. Two and a half years, yeah, nearly nearly three years. And it’s going it’s going better. And my focus is now more working on solution side and more functional. And you know, select see and they will be learning coming for me maybe discovery phases and you know, something beside where I can more go back to my previous where I was enjoying presale stuff, you know, where where we work closer to the companies suggests the solution and book scoping and yeah, discovery planning. So that that will that will be my future. So here are my and yeah, so overall, I am I’m a full package, Microsoft infrastructure, database, software, CRM. So yeah. 1718 years. Sorry.

Pei Mun Lim 

I was just thinking I was just looking and listening to you. And I think your path mirrors mind quite a bit. So I was also in Microsoft, I was working with Microsoft partners, routing, infrastructure, networks, proxy servers, and those time in SMS. This was even before Yeah, that’s Yes. Ms. Mail before exchange? Definitely. Yeah. Novell NetWare. Oh, my God, you know,

Kam 

definitely. Yeah. I remember there was a even we talked about Facebook, but I’m talking about now. Microsoft and Google. Google has a I don’t know if you used to hide that orkut? I don’t know if you heard that. Yes, I was very big in India. It was very big. It was it was very big. Yeah. So yeah, it’s a so I came to UK around health. Mid mid 2006. will take a year. It was It was challenging. Because you came. Yes. Yeah.

Pei Mun Lim 

I was just looking at your profile. I was trying to pinpoint when you came to England. So 2006 to now, we’re talking about five years, and you managed to pick up English. So well, the front facing roles. You mean, you? I mean, you mentioned earlier on that your presentation? Yes, the C level suite. And that’s, that’s quite impressive, actually.

Kam 

Thank you. Yeah, it’s, it’s, I don’t know, it was very, maybe, you know, the, the thing is, I think I know what that happened. The thing is, I came, let’s say I came on 20th. And I got a job within seven days. And they said, Hey, you go, you need to train these engineering students. And I was like, was it the right thing? And I didn’t even they didn’t took proper interview. Like, you know, like, normally, but even in India, I was MCT. Mike’s a certified trainer. If I used to hire somebody, I used to do two, three presentations of the guy, if I’m hiring someone, I should do it. But these guys, they didn’t do anything. They just said no, you are MCT to start. And I was like, Come on, guys. You know, I just came 710 days before just I’m just new be in UK. And if you trusting me, I can try my best. But it’s understandable. It’s fine. But hey, all right. So I’m good. I can talk now.

Pei Mun Lim 

That’s quite the chance on you. Is and yeah,

Kam 

that’s definitely that. Okay, but didn’t work. So Fine. We land and we don’t. Excellent stuff. Yeah.

Pei Mun Lim 

So I just again, you know, kind of looking at the path and journey that you’ve come, you mentioned that you’ve gone through redundancies twice. So this is something obviously, a lot of people have been experiencing last year, specifically, due to COVID. There was a huge amount of layoffs. There’s a lot of people who weren’t furloughed, and which not every country in every company has had the privilege to do so. Can you talk about how you dealt with your redundancy and how you kind of like, faced it? And what did you do to you know, to move progress from that?

Kam 

Oh, yeah, redundancy. It’s, it’s, it’s scary as well, when it comes down first time and especially it hits more if you if you don’t have anyone around you who never, never seen that. Right. And I was with family. And let’s say my missus and her families belong all are always UK, UK born I know, everybody’s crying. And they never actually seen redundancy in the lifetime whenever, like, whoever worked in it, right? It was quite scary. And I spent last three months, you know, like, the consultation period, and this is where companies helped every company like in UK, they normally help to train, you know, how to deal helping you to connect with agencies and other recruitment people or to provide help on it. I was getting that. But but it was it was really scary in the sense of why me Why suddenly, what happened to this company? Why can this avoid Where do I go? I only know Blackberry, then it will change me I have to restart again. So you know, like all these questions coming to my mind. Right. But then then, when I started interviews, yes, failed two, three. But then I I picked up again, right? Yeah, it was just I think two three interviews. T hey just said no, sorry, no, next role, next role, you’re not fit for this one. But then after 231, I was I was like becoming little confident, and started facing things where what I need to prep work for for the interview. And this is where I first time notice, I should plan some journey when I’m explaining my life, my flow my processes signaling to someone guys what I did and what I’m capable for. I should give them a proper example. So they don’t get confused. Basically what I’m looking for, and they can put me in the right place where I what I want to do and what they want to achieve from me with my skills, right? I don’t want to show them everything I know. No, they want to focus according to the company brand what they want to. So So this is where after three, four interviews, I started changing slowly. And yeah, it’s it’s normal again, after 10 days, 15 days of sorry, 10 or 15 interviews.  Sorry, I I actually got the job. And yes, it was, again, the big one was is the learning About contracting. So I started as a contractor was a small contract role. But again, it’s I learned something new. And I know how to battle as a contractor, do you need a call accountant, you can be a sole trader, what is limited company, and that was another achievement for me with the with the contracting, right. So I loved it, I learned it. And from there, I became more confident, right guys, it’s fine. It’s only redundancy, then I started guiding people, don’t freak out, it’s just a redundancy. It’s like you are doing the small small project sometime, then you have to move on, get ready for it, make sure you know how to talk to the people how to do interviews, and that’s the only skill you need to work on it and carry on.

Pei Mun Lim 

Well, that’s quite a useful way of looking at looking at life. I think I Excuse me, I also look at things that were actually in specifically, I look at jobs that way, in terms of each job is a transaction or a project as you as you put it. So during this time, when I’m engaged with your mom working for you, I will do my best. And I’ll learn as much as I can. And in return, I provide value to you. And at some point, maybe that kind of relationship will end and it’s moving on to the next stage. So I’m guessing the way that you’ve approached it hope you win. The second redundancy came around.

Kam 

I wasn’t scared at all. Honestly, speaking, I know I said, Look, you know what, then the thing is, yeah, my first one, I started look, looking jobs as soon as we know, because it’s just the guidance we received from anybody around us. But with the second one, yeah, we know I said, Fine. Let’s just wait till when we have 20 days left. I need to make sure my CV is ready. I know I need to focus on this area. And I’ll just jump on, you know, do up. But again, the question is often the redundancy, do you want to take 20 days break? That’s a general question, or because people do prep work for interviews, some people really they want. They want relaxed time for interviews. But again, there are two types of people just straight because you do get chance to go on into you do get free day off from the companies like you know, any interview. Just tell your manager guys, I’m going for an interview, right? They won’t say anything. No. But what I did, I did. I was actually I said that I’m already ready. So I talked to my manager. I said, Can I go for interview? Awesome. Yeah, go for it if you want to, and I all I need to tell my appointment time. When I’m going do I need half day? Or do I need full day off? Depending on what I’m doing? I go redundant on 30th. And I go I start my next job actually on first off first. Yeah, but they were colleagues of mine. They took like some people. It’s just a very personal choice. People do take break. I didn’t take breaks I just straight on because I was I think I was in love with CRM that thanks so much. I wanted to get on on Salesforce that time that that’s what was my, you know, aim, to be honest. So that made me a little different.

Pei Mun Lim 

I think just listening to you narrate the two different redundancies and how you approach I can see, you know, on the first time you’re talking about the first one and how much fear you had, and so much worry. And then the second time, because of the mindset change, instead of from what I observe instead of fear and worry, it seemed to be you were prepared. And also there seems to be an anticipation of the next role in your life. That does seem to be quite 180 degree change in how you look at things, would you would you say? That’s true?

Kam 

That is true. That is true. And I was very grateful as well at the same time because I trained it to people that time to was kind of did that their first redundancy that time? And I changed their mind and I managed to help them, guys. And that was like people come to you if you blasted something, otherwise people don’t ask you. Right. So, gratefully, I helped two people. Really? So yeah, it’s changed my mind. Big time as well. Nothing. So very good.

Pei Mun Lim 

It feels like this is a good segue into what I wanted to ask was I know, you have quite big network in India, due to your previous role. And what are you currently doing now in terms of being quite active in social media? How? So COVID hit a lot of people quite hard. In what I know is what I read in the news and what comes up in my feed, but you have a lot closer relationship with a lot of people who have been going through some tough times. Can you just kind of paint a picture of what’s been happening and what’s currently happening right now? And whether they’re coping or not coping? Can you just share that with us?

Kam 

Oh, yes, definitely. It’s, it’s very, very tough time, right? I’m not saying for everyone, because, you know, India, India is always I consider because I’m from India, number one. And I’ve always seen two different pictures of India one, I’m in very good shape. One, I’m struggling, right. So, so these two things, if I say it, I am struggling, it’s actually more, you can’t see that every day. But when you involve at local level, with the people who are actually working and helping them, then then that number is is increasing, increasing every day. Right? Because you helping them you see one person, two people, 10 people 50, hundreds are coming, right. I’m helping a lot of students a lot of engineering students this time as well. And and it’s, it’s I started this journey from last six months and couple of actually YouTubers, they actually contacted me can I’m getting a lot of questions regarding the life of a, you know, software developers in, in India, or if they want to go abroad, can they go easily? Right? What what kind of qualification do they need in India? To get to some level where they can, they can, you know, achieve what they want to achieve? Right? It’s not they’re not getting quality life. There. They are. But, you know, like, it’s it’s a it’s a two different things basically, right? As I said, Do I have a quality life already? Yes, you are doing and some people are unable to spend money to those colleges where they can get campus, right. So I was in the same situation when I was doing my civil prior to civil engineering, my parents couldn’t afford that level of money. Like we’re looking at good numbers, right? Same situation there. They can go to those colleges or big labels, basically where they can Accenture, or any Cognizant or Capgemini, or any company can go there and pick up All right, guys, come here, we’ll give you this big package. No, they have to go start from somewhere. And they don’t even know sometimes how to prep for my CV. What line is it? Everyone just said, Android Developer? Okay, shall we all start into Android Developer but someone just came in and they said, okay, start Salesforce is is booming. So nobody is telling them, man, you are a data science student. It’s it’s a data science machine learning, it’s actually a big thing. You can control multiple CRMs why you only look in Salesforce, right? Because you are in backbone. But now the guy is just dependent on maybe someone again, these are the things missing and COVID because of the COVID those guys are kind of there the courier is about five years behind now. Because education is going back and it hits in UK as well. I’m not saying not but it hits more in India, where people are still you know, is struggling, right. So it’s really again, just it’s very emotional. It’s got to take time sorry. But it’s it’s I’m trying to basically wherever we can we created groups now. And you know what people are asking the questions. I try my best not to switch because people thinking me as a I’m a Salesforce they come they just say can is Salesforce everything. And I’m trying my best guys, don’t focus only only this. I am a salesperson. Yes, that’s my current job. But if you look at my LinkedIn, I’m on multi skilled person typically. Right? So you should focus on first What are you doing? You are engineering students of something else, right? First, let’s try there. There are jobs there. Yes, there are jobs in Europe there are jobs in UK you can still even only c++ can take you really in a very good level. So don’t freak out that you learn on yourself c c++ and you can’t get it nobody you’re wrong. Focus on it and learn something good levels find a company stop basics and pick up a job. But yeah, we were trying sickly. So let’s see how far we can go.

Pei Mun Lim 

I acknowledge you for, you know, the kind of help that you’re providing to this group of people and trying to help them with their CVS and advice and things like that, given the kind of breadth of skills and experience that you have had, it sounds like what you’re able to share is providing good value. Let me just turn to just kind of projects because that’s, that’s an area that interests me. And obviously, definitely, self as well. And can you think of some of the projects that you’ve had that’s been hugely memorable, that has changed you in some way, shape? Or form? Can you share with us your experience and how that’s made an impact on your life?

Kam 

Um, yeah. Number one, since after Vodafone, I’ve picked up a very big project again, and number one, that completely changed me thinking about Salesforce, and a lot of achievements have been done, because no research happened around that time about Salesforce, how the tool works, how to get the developers how to households, basically, and how to work with outsource different teams. Right. And, and how do you get a quality work and monitoring? That was one of the product which has blown my mind. And, and completely changed as a, you know, can you can be a consultant? Right? I got the level basically on that from that job this big time. And then then after? Yeah, I I learned and, you know, I’m here today as a as a senior consultant. So yeah,

Pei Mun Lim 

excellent stuff, he brought up something that, you know, is quite close to my heart, which is working with offshore team members. And it’s something that I find fairly easy to do myself, mainly because I come from I you know, I’m not English. I’m not British, therefore, I am quite attuned to the fact that there is cultural barriers sometimes, as well as language barriers

Kam 

towards Thai, I know where you coming from now? I get it. Yes. Gone? I let you finish first, then I will tell you,

Pei Mun Lim 

Okay, excellent. So I’m quite sensitive and quite attuned to this, which makes it easier for me to connect to my team, because I’m always very careful about what I say how I say, and whether the message is received, etc, etc. Can you give me your thoughts and your feelings on how people have managed offshore relationships so far, where they’ve gone wrong? And what’s the best way to do it? From your point of view?

Kam 

I don’t want to be rude. But I have to say things sometimes, because I think we hear sometimes really rude with offshore tea. We do. And I have seen it in in many halls when we talking to offshore team, right. And, and we think they are setting robots, basically. And they just couldn’t imagine things and they’re going to work on it. Right? But if we get the same level here, of experience, and same person, same skills, and that person can say, Stop. You need to get this thing fast, then I will work that’s a developer answer. But offshore, the poor, the poor in the sense like they either they shy, or they don’t want to say something, they get pushed back for no reason. It’s not even their fault, basically. And then, then they just have to work. It’s what type of this cultural difference. And we we are in the service industry, especially sitting in UK, we are more than I would say 20 years of this experience in UK, everybody. Did we not learn the simple task basically be nice? I don’t know.

Pei Mun Lim 

Let me pick on that, actually, because I think it’s quite unique because both Malaysian India are ex colony. colony, and therefore there is residue of how we are to the west. There’s a perception that West is better, generally, so you can get a job in the West, or you have a Western person hired in your company. So let me share an anecdote one of my very earliest jobs. We hired an Irish guy and a white hat. He gets paid more than, you know the other people in the company, but he wasn’t very good. It was just bragging rights, and I’m feeling that it’s in China is the same. I know you gave me the such thing called rent a foreigner. Yeah. Why? If you’re from the west, you better and and, and we are not as good. So that’s an inferiority complex as a general rule already, if someone white says it, then it must be true or correct or more accurate, and I’m wrong. You know, broadly generalizing there is still that sense. Obviously, you and I have lived in the UK. And so you kind of got over that. Yeah, definitely. But those who, you know, are still there, there is a little bit of that, and therefore, there’s a sense, it’s probably a vicious cycle in that there’s a sense that I can’t say anything, because I might be wrong, there’s high chance. perception, definitely, yeah. Which then perpetuates a situation whereby they don’t want to tell you that something’s wrong until the end, and the other person over here who may have started the relationship in quite a rough manner, by not being sensitive, and being rude as you say, Yep. You know, because the other person doesn’t want to tell them that they’re encountering an issue or that they are not clear, because the instructions provided have not been clear. And then you get to a point where, you know, some time has passed, and that whatever item that’s supposed to be worked on addressed, hasn’t yet been completed. Therefore, it’s a vicious cycle, because then the person gets really upset, and has some other ideas about what you know why you guys haven’t finished this piece of work. And it’s just,

Kam 

it’s, it’s a lot, it’s actually really, I try my best to control these things, whenever I involved and I, I try my best best and deliver. And because of this situation, I had, I had like, a number of situations happened with architects. Right? You know, because we have to, we have to say that, no, I have to stop people basically. And I’m not saying it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a knowledge skill, it’s, it’s more about customer services, talking to your colleagues, writing a technical overview, you know, all these kinds of skills, basically, Where, where, where some people are really missing, because writing instructions for developer is a big, big job, right. And it’s a big responsibility. And same time, talking to a functional person is very important, because functional person is a very central person between client and tech team. If you are not talking to functional personal properly, and you want to be egoistic, then tough, you’re not going to get anything which you where you want to achieve, right. And, and that’s that situation, that kind of gap. And I think I’ve managed to fill some somehow in my current project, basically. But previously, I have seen these situations multiple times where, you know, you have to line something, and you have to escalate. Sometimes you have to talk to someone to resolve these things. And it’s actually very, very quiet, in that, in local is very hard, sometimes, in a project is very hard.

Pei Mun Lim 

I was just talking to someone else on our podcast, and we were talking about, I think, in a past life, if I stayed within Microsoft, well, I probably would have stepped into a Solutions Architect type role specializing instead of going down a project management role. But I, I suppose my mentor actually told me that I seem to be able to get people to work together better in a team, and therefore maybe my calling was down a pm route. And so as a project manager, luckily, Windows situation that you say arise, I have some authority to actually, you know, kind of, like, cut that out at that point. And that makes the project a lot better. Because this is the tone that I’m setting, right? This is not how you talk to team members, we all have a valid reason to be here and to be able to provide input. But from what you’re saying now, that it just highlights the point that it’s a leadership issue, somehow somewhere, because you as in your role, is able to set the tone. You can do your best utilizing with the architect in your team. Yeah, it requires somebody else to actually say, hey, what you’re doing is actually not acceptable. The assumptions you’re making about other people being able to read your mind You want things done this way? And whatever not is just really unrealistic. And another point of another point I want to pick up is that they probably don’t do this with another person, not English person, I’d say.

Kam 

Yes, I have got so many live examples for that one. Definitely. Very sad. I’m not calling myself English, but I am right now from last seven years. Right? And, right. It’s just that’s the way and I think, you know, like, as I know, more closer now, service industry specially, like, openly, I know how it is. So. So let’s see, there are always good people, like you pay and to be honest, and Lucky me. I’ve got some someone this time as well. So, which is good. And then we can, I’m not saying nothing is impossible. There is always one person not to one person, you need to just handle it, let’s say. So we’ll find a way. Always. Yeah. Okay.

Pei Mun Lim 

Come just before we close, yeah, I’m quite respectful of your time, hours. To what so I know you’re hugely, hugely active in the social media space, you’ve got your own YouTube channel. And what I’d like to know, is a couple of things. One is what drives you to do what you’re doing. And what are the kinds of things that excite you moving forward?

Kam 

Oh, YouTube, is I would say, COVID. Because of the COVID. It came up, right in my mind, because as I said, I was talking last year in, I think, August 2020, July, August time, I started talking to many people in India, where I got this idea where I got involved with a couple of groups, and they were getting, they wanted to get some help. And I started and I said, Look, I’ve got knowledge, rather than sitting on one one call, I won’t be able to, you know, provide that level of knowledge. And then I said, Let’s dive, let’s just prepare a session. So then we did some sessions. And this is where I get kick. And I said, Can let’s train more and more people. And, and this is the way where we can train. rather than focus only on technical, I would like to do requirement, helping business because business is also struggling, same time, how to write a requirement, right? So we need to help people we don’t I’m not saying because people are there who are not from a technology. Let’s say I’m the best business analyst, but I don’t know Microsoft CRM. I’m a BSc ba, ba ba for something, but I’m not a best BA in Salesforce, we need to help those guys. So they know they know some stuff, right? That’s one part. Second part. Students want to learn Salesforce, why they want to learn Salesforce, they need to know and some students are saying can is so expensive to learn Salesforce, and why why do I have to pay, I said, Who told you that Salesforce is very expensive to learn, it’s free, you need to just click the right button and get paired one by one by one. Right? You will get there and it’s all free. Don’t go spend 500? Well, I’m just talking about Indian money now. 50,000 bucks, right? Which is a lot 50,000 bucks is a big money to spend over there. And like, no, don’t, don’t do that, guys, it’s a COVID time you need to save money go there, right and then I did these sessions on someone else YouTube channel basically, then then I started with my own and this is my my feature is basically I want to help many and many and we are will be coming with from the basics to you know, increase more and more knowledge, awareness, not only one product, there will be multiple projects, I will be working, focusing on students and a business business. But so yeah, that’s my

Pei Mun Lim 

understanding, I think your your desire to help people actually can shine through in everything you’ve told me in terms of how you’ve dealt with redundancy and how you’ve helped the two new trainees with your experience already and also with these other students and professionals in India who want to better their lives and to improve their professional career. So I acknowledge you for the work that you do. And so can you share with me what your YouTube channel is and how can people find you?

Kam 

Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it says, I got my email unique URL and YouTube. So which is? Yeah, it’s KSM 1313, like, a slash my YouTube channels. Thank you.

Good stuff.

Pei Mun Lim 

So with that come I really thank you. I appreciate you for taking the time to speak to me today. And I’m pretty sure there’s probably a part to some point when you are super famous. It’ll be good to catch up again. I’m so I’m trying our best to support people wherever we can, you know, it’s Thank you. Thanks for your time as well. Again, like Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Bye