Why should you exceed expectations?
You’re being paid to do what’s expected
- Representing the company respectably
- Delivering on your promises
- Doing what you said you’d do
- Using correct spelling and grammar in your communications
- Coming up with the solution
- Building the code and software to spec
etc etc etc.
These are the ‘minimum’, because in exchange for the salary and pay that you receive, these are expected of you.
If you’re part of the “why bother” crew, then don’t be surprised when you are overlooked for promotion. 😐 Because it’s those who go the extra mile, who exceed expectations that stand out in the crowd.
Tokeer Ahmed and I had such a blast on our first #podcast that we just had to schedule another one; and boy – this is one that you’ll want to listen to especially if you’re looking to break into the #Salesforce #consulting world.
We talk about what makes a graduate or new hire stand out and what are the key things to remember if you want to flourish in the role. I just had so much fun, and I really hope that you will enjoy listening to it as much as we did in making it 🥰
Link 👇🏻
#OnThePeiroll
Transcript
Pei Mun Lim
Hello, Tok, welcome to part two of the broadcast OnThePeiroll. How are you today?
Tok
Hi Pei. I’m very, very good. And thank you so much for having me back.
Pei Mun Lim
I think I enjoyed our conversation so much the first time. And as always, I had this big long list of questions that I thought. I mean, we have to do part two. So I’m really no worries, likewise, that we got around to it. So in part one, we talked quite a bit about your professional journey through the roles that you had that landed you right now, in your functional head of Salesforce at Capgemini. What I’d like to start with today, is to maybe just ask you a question to say, could you maybe pull out a few lessons that you’ve learned on your journey that you think might be helpful for anyone who’s listening in on podcast who might be thinking of either getting Salesforce or into consulting that that you think might be useful?
Tok
Yeah, absolutely. So I think one of the lessons would be when you’re kind of approaching, like a certain task, right? What I would always kind of advise new people now to kind of do is, is you kind of have, you know, something, you have like a goal or an objective. Right? And you want to try and meet that goal? Yeah. What I would always say is, always try to aim to see how you can just slightly exceed it. Right. So I always say to people meeting it is brilliant, right? That’s, that’s absolutely spot on. Right? But not and not every time and it won’t apply to every single objective or goal that you have. Right. But for some of them, you should you should think about how can I just give that little bit extra back? Right? Because what I found in kind of my experience is is that when you do those few little bits extra, right? And I’ll give you I’ll give you an example from way back from a few years ago, right? Where, basically, I was kind of tasked with kind of putting together a few reports within within Salesforce, right. And basically, for those familiar with Salesforce reports, you know, there’s like filters, and you know, you can have kind of joined reports, etc, like that, right? So I was kind of tax tasked to do, we’d like a few reports. And then actually, during the actually doing the reports, there was a couple of things. And I think if my memory serves me correctly, it was something to do with like, account types, you know, the customer had various different account types. And I think I noticed that actually, there wasn’t a report for that, right. And actually, in Salesforce, it was relatively quickly quick to pull it together. So what kind of did just that little bit extra, right? gave it back? And I’m not saying do extra, break your back, right? But do that little bit extra. And what I found was actually a really huge positive response to that, right? From the client, also from the project management, right? Because they were like, Oh, that’s brilliant. Can you know, something that we didn’t think about? Let’s do more, right? We need to do more of those. So let’s put in some, you know, user stories or requirements around that you’ve just kind of done the light bulb, right. So yeah, that. So I think just spinning off that. That’s key bit of advice, is always try to just do that little bit that exceeds because I think it’s the exceeding, that kind of makes you makes the noise. So meeting is really good. Exceeding is is I think that’s what is going to take you further in your kind of career.
Pei Mun Lim
I think you’re right, because I, what my head that what you’re describing is that little X factor of the people that we see, and you know, that’s the job description. expectation is you can do that job. But as you say, it’s that little bit extra that makes you stand apart from the crowd, so to speak. So that’s, that’s really quite handy of the lesson.
Tok
The other lesson I would say pay is, is owned the autonomy. Right? So something that I think early on, and I guess lots of people will have this, right, there’s always that kind of that kind of nervousness, especially when you first go into consulting. And I remember like, thinking, Oh, you know, I think we talked a little bit about in the last session, right? Are people going to believe me? Right? Are they going to follow me? Are they going to believe me, right? But I think what is very unique about kind of consulting, particularly the functional area, is that you do get a lot of autonomy, right? And what you need to do is kind of grasp it, you know, and, and really go with it, go with it, right. And it might feel like, you might be out of your comfort zone sometimes. But I actually think that is a really good thing. So I’ve been on engagements in the past, where there’s been a few things where I’ve been a little bit unsure about it, but I’ve kind of just, you know, gone with my gut and just thought, actually, you know, what, I’m just going to go with this view, put it down on the table, you know, and kind of see what response you you get. And I think part of that is, is that empowerment, right to to you know, own own, own your own kind of career Own your goals, essentially.
Pei Mun Lim
So here’s a question, this trait of yours. Do you think you were born with it? Or is it something that you learn along the way?
Tok
So I think that it’s, it’s probably a mixture, but I would say that I’ve probably learned more, to use it over the years. Right. So there’s, and, and not just from, like, myself, individually, I think what’s been key is I’ve seen other people do it really successfully. So within camp, I’ve seen people, you know, really own, own their goals, and really kind of demonstrate that ability. So we’ve kind of then from a mentorship perspective, actually looked at them and thought actually, so and so has done it like that. So, you know, let’s, let’s try and, you know, let’s pry, let’s ask them, let’s, let’s ping them. And, you know, set up a meeting. And so actually, I wanted a bit of your advice, right. Which, which is one of the things that another Sorry, I’m, I’m going into snowballing into various things. But I guess it’s another thing that I would say, especially to new people who are joining goring consulting, don’t be afraid to kind of pink, you know, anybody really, if you see that kind of spark in someone, or you feel like you see certain attributes in someone and you think actually, I kind of want to know, how did they do that? Right? So they kind of articulate, for example, they articulated something technical, really well, to a client that was very non technical, right? And if you can’t see that, it’s like, that’s fine. Just be direct, right? Be a bit bolt, this, ping them and say, You know what, I really liked the way you did that. You know, and that’s what I normally do. Right? You kind of you kind of start off with that. And then and most of the time, you know, people love kind of making those connections, right? And now, you know, I think people have always been quite forthcoming and kind of said, Yeah, you know, it might not happen today. But in a few weeks time, there might be, you know, a 30 minute call setup. And you can just ask them and kind of pry and just continue to kind of learn. And what I will say is, it’s, it’s a two what I call it like a toolkit, right? And you just keep adding to it, right? You’re always like adding, I’m forever, I think, just just the other week that there was something that happened around around a presentation. And I was like, Oh, actually, yeah, that’s actually a really good idea. So again, when he added to the toolkit, right, so for the next time, let’s try and put that in, because he was actually quite Good thing
Pei Mun Lim
about so what you’re talking about is modeling the behavior that you want, you know, you want to learn, sorry, learning by modeling the behavior of the people who are doing the things that you admire. So I, so we started talking about accountability, and you know, robbing and being being responsible for for your success. And I just wanted to segue into that, because I also saw that account. And that was something that I was really impressed with. So as an example, I was talking to someone, and it was all around was all around probation and being a reviewer for for new people who are coming through. And I was shown a way of helping the new people to own their probation, progress in identifying all the objectives, and identifying all the things that they had to do, and to purposefully go out and create positive experience for the clients and team members. And to elicit positive feedback, which I thought was amazing. Because then at the end of probation, you can say, hey, look at all these stuff that I’ve done. Therefore, I can add value. I had this one review, he was really interesting, in what she what she said, actually, you know, my objective won’t be to get 10 positive feedback. I also want 10, negative feedback. And I’m going to find them, so I know what I can do to improve. And that kind of blew me away, because that’s kind of what happened. And then she was able to show me that she was taking that one step further. As you were talking about, you’re not just Hey, look at how great I am. But, hey, I’ve also found all these things that I could improve on. And here’s my plan for actually addressing them,
Tok
which I thought was wedding. But that’s really good. paycheck over here. And I think it’s learnings, right? So it’s about, it’s about taking those. And I wouldn’t necessarily say negative, right? It’s about taking those kinds of learnings. And then you’re right, you kind of do the kind of gap and say, actually, out of that, what could I have done better? Right? And actually, how am I going to get to getting better? Right? And it’s really good, right? Because you can you can then actually write write those down. But Have I ever told you my like car, the car analogy? I’m not sure whether we ever, so I’ll mention it now for everyone. So what what I always feel is, is the end, it links in with the whole autonomy, kind of what we’re talking about, is is that Capgemini or say the consulting company, right? is is basically is basically the car, right? And you can imagine that in the car, there’s going to be all these fancy, you know, power steering, cruise control, you know, automatic gear, all that stuff. Right. And, and you think that as those are all the tools that the consulting company are providing, right? So it’s all there, right? You’ve got this vehicle, you’ve got all the tools, right? However, it’s the individual that needs to drive. Right? So they’ve got all the tools, right, the individual that actually needs to start the car up and make it go further. And that is basically the person driving their own career, right, putting the foot on their accelerator, it’s it is down to essentially the individual right to kind of own that. What the company can provide is, is all the support, right? And the vehicle to kind of do that, right? But it does require that they’re kind of individual to kind of drive it. So your example about the you know, the kind of negative and the learnings feedback is brilliant, right? Because that’s that’s classic example of somebody with all the tools, right? But then they’re actually driving it right. They’re driving it forward using that method.
Pei Mun Lim
Yeah, that’s really good analogy. No, you didn’t use the car one in a different way. But I really, um, so you had a time machine and you could travel back in time and meet the younger, top younger, more handsome? Not to say that, you know, once in a moment what would you tell him?
What I would say is don’t take things, potentially, too personally, when you get that types of feedback, never take it personally, as an attack on you, right? Try to be quite constructive with it. Again, your example of that person is brilliant, right? That’s how you can learn and be constructive with it. Right? The other thing is, is particularly early on in your career, really be that kind of sponge, right? Like, go into engagements, etc, and really soak it up, right, you know, all the various aspects of a project. And it’s particularly useful for I’m being very biased towards a functional consultant, because they usually are involved in pretty much the end to end journey of a project right? from from from like, start to end, but really kind of, you know, be that sponge. And like I said, at the towards the start of the call, have be be be proactive, right? ask the questions, think where you might be able to add that little bit of extra value? I would say, yeah, if I was to go back, probably those three things probably stand out.
Pei Mun Lim
Thank you. So you, you said something that I want to expand a little bit on, it’s all about definitions. So when we went cap, when I was on a project with you, we had the consulting team, do a big part of the business analysis, partner, the front loading project with the analysis, part of figuring out what the customer needed, and identifying the requirements, etc. Now, this is not usual, in a lot of the partners that are out there a lot of policy, a lot of justice partners, don’t have a separate division of just business analysts who are technology agnostic. So there’s an expectation that if you’re a functional consultant, that you would have to do some of the VA work. The workshops are sitting in front of the customer, often the right question and eliciting that requirements. Do you see so when we were doing that project, I came in, from that point of view, say, in a lot of the partners, I’ve worked in functional consulting, division, had to do some VA work. And that wasn’t in some projects that we were in. Do you? Is that still the case? Or the projects at cap? Is it still front loaded with more pure MBAs, and then functional consultants just cannot pick it up after that?
Tok
So it is still a combination? So it is still and what what I would say in the I think, regardless of if you want to pigeonhole Lido kind of people or or roles, right, I think regardless, right, I feel that the functional consultant, right, I think, to be a successful one, you would need to have some element of the business analysis, right. And it’s, it’s that ability to kind of be able to kind of get from a customer. Yeah. What what the ask is, right. So it’s almost being able to kind of derive that from them. Yeah. And then kind of putting the Salesforce spin onto it, right, and then playing that back. So I think in order to be a really successful functional consulting, you do have to have the business analysis attributes are there right? And I think sometimes pay, people don’t realize that they have them, and they’ve been doing them all their life. So I’ve had some very key individuals within the team, who come from a non consulting background, right. And actually, when you probably In an interview, and then when you see them kind of flourish on a, you know, on a client is, is it’s like, it’s that light bulb moment where they say, Actually, I’ve kind of been doing this for the last five years, but I didn’t really realize it’s just that now that I’m with capital, whatever consulting partner, you’re officially using, you know, the Agile methodology or whatever, right? But actually, I’ve been kind of been doing my own version of backlog refinement for many, many years, right. And all those principles, right are part and parcel, whether you call it Ba, you know, call Ba, generic Ba, right? All those kinds of skills, I feel it is part and parcel of, of being a functional, I guess the only layer that functionals obviously do need to have is, is the sales force lens, right. So you need to know the kind of product, right. But when I say you need to know the product, you need to know the core product, right? You don’t need to know, A to Zed of absolutely everything in Salesforce, right? You need to know the the kind of core fundamentals right of the product, and be able to kind of put that lens on requirements. And there’ll be requirements where you think this doesn’t quite fit. Let me take it away. Let’s try and find something that fits, and you bring it back, right. And that happens lots of times, in lots of engagements, with with requirements, when you know, requirements and never gonna, you’re never going to get all requirements that are going to be completely down to achieve what Salesforce does, right. But yeah, it’s just one of those scenarios. But again, it’s that business analysis, right? That you need to be able to figure that out, that Salesforce won’t be able to do that, right. Or it might be able to do it with a little bit of customization.
Pei Mun Lim
Let me just distill it maybe a little bit further, is that I think, you know, we can put words like business analysis and all that on top of it. But really, it’s just communication, is it not? It’s absolutely, it’s me trying to figure out what it is that ails you, that’s giving you pain, which you may or may not be able to articulate it in a way that I can understand in my world. Therefore, it’s the skill of seeing your reaction, asking the right question, changing the way that I’m asking certain things to try and get you to tell me where it hurts, and why does it hurt? So that I can find a way to fix it for you?
Tok
Absolutely. And yet, you hit the nail on the head. Communication is key. Right. And I think particularly in consulting, particularly in for a functional consultant, what you’ve just said, you know, the communication, it won’t just be with one individual, right? So, as we said, functional consultant usually is there during the entire project lifecycle, right. So what also is key for for a functional consultant is being able to kind of shift the way that they articulate things depending on who their end stakeholder is. So client, development, team, testing, team training, right? So I’ve just kind of very high level gone through the kind of project lifecycle, right, and you need to be able to shift to that, depending on your audience. And you’re right paid. Yeah, communication, absolutely fundamental to that correct communication.
Pei Mun Lim
So we so we are kind of like moving into kind of job roles and things like that. So I was talking to a young lady who was told that her communication skills wasn’t good enough, and therefore she didn’t get the job that she was looking for. And they didn’t tell her what that meant. And so she was an Indian National in in Belgium. So there’s other languages that was required. But I think the, in that scenario, two things. One is, you know, a lot of job description, they’ll say, great communication skills, but they don’t flesh it out in terms of what does that mean. And so, people who are applying for that job said, Well, you know what, I can tell someone what to do. Therefore, I communicate well, and that’s not just saying what you’re saying is absolutely right. So for functional consultant, it’s the adaptability. It’s the emotional intelligence. To be able to see how people can receive and ingest communication in the style that is needed. And use that. Because they are actually the glue that holds the requirements together, they, they can see what the customers wanting. And somehow they’ve got to get back from their head and put it in a language that say a tester knows, your developer knows, to say, this is what they need. And make sure that it’s all it’s like. It’s like you describing to me your favorite cheesecake, and what goes in there, but you don’t really know. Because you didn’t make the cheesecake, you just know that it tastes great. And then me trying to get that from you? Or does it taste very lemony or too cheesy, etc, and then just translating that to my developer is going to be baking the cheesecake?
Tok
Absolutely. And I love the fact that you’ve got a food reference in there. Knowing conversations, and I love the fact that you’ve got the food reference, but yeah, I’m totally with you on that. Is, is basically like that. And something that you just said pay that I want to touch on is that you mentioned about on savings, right? And I think that is that is always going to be a bit of a challenge right there on paper. You know, the words can look or be perceived as just good communication, right. And I think what you don’t get, like on a CV, and what might still be still be a challenge, right to kind of do is kind of our How to kind of articulate that, right. And so one of the key things that we kind of do, when we’re bringing in people, and which we found is work really well is like we have a case study, right, which involves the prospective, like, candidate to kind of present back, right. And I think what that gives you then, is you get to kind of see the communication style, right? You see what the style is like, and you kind of see it being brought to life. Right? So I do feel that I think we’re always going to be, there’s always going to be the element of a challenge with what is on a CV with a few bullet points, right. And I’ll be honest with you, I’ve seen people that had just one bullet point in there, right? And then in an interview, they’ve been absolutely amazing, right? And you just think, actually, their CV didn’t do them justice, right? From from a comms perspective. And I’ve also seen the flip side, where somebody’s gone into a lot, lots of detail on the CV, and you look at it and you think, you know, really good, sounds really good. And then you get to an interview. And that doesn’t happen. And then you just think, actually not right. So. So yeah, I think sometimes he you know, on paper, I think it will, you will always have that bit of a challenge.
Pei Mun Lim
Let me, let me just drill down that particular point itself. So looking back at the CVS that you’ve you know, you’ve had to go through to demote your team, you know, go to that in a minute. Um, has there been any that struck you as a well written CV that sets the expectations, right, so the two scenarios that you provided was someone whose CV has been slightly lackluster dependent on you to give them a chance to actually interview to correct that misperception? And a CV that set an expectation that was really high? Got them the interview, and then you went? meanie. So both scenarios are not great. So obviously, we’re talking about person number one, who has the potential. What should they you know, what are the kind of things that that you’ve seen that that made you think that this person is worth talking to? And that, you know, when it comes to the interview, they’ve actually, you know, proven themselves, right, what are the things other than just, I’m a great communicator? What kind of things? Have you seen that made you want to pick up the phone and say, can you, you know, can you do an interview next week?
Tok
Yeah, I think pay for me, and the successful candidates that that we’ve had, is the application of said skill. Right? And then, I mean, it sounds like I’m Goldilocks here. So I’m trying to write but, but like, what? And also, it needs to be done in quite a concise way. Right? So I have to admit, you don’t eat, don’t get me wrong, it is a challenge, right? Because you think I want to sell myself. But how do I do it? So it’s not seven pages long, right. But what the ones that I’ve seen that have been really great examples is definitely where a skill is mentioned. But straight after the skill, you have a short paragraph about how they actually an example of how this skill has been, you know, that how they’ve shown that skill? And particularly the communication or if they know about a certain Salesforce project, or maybe it’s about a certain part in, in a project lifecycle. Right. So I think that that is, I would say, that’s probably the thing that I look out for. And the successful people have been the people that perhaps, you know, do that little bit of articulating the in a way that that backs it up with not just a bullet points of I know that, right? Because then it’s better if you say, I know, x, and this is how I applied x. I also know why. And this is how I applied why. I also knows that and this is how I applied said none.
Pei Mun Lim
I think I’ve seen a lot of CV where they just say I know this, I know this, I know this. And I’ve done this in this project, but not the how, as you say the application of it. So that’s really good. I’m going to just go back to an L flip, flip over here, to team and what we talked about. So just looking back at the projects that you’ve done, is that any one in particular that jumps out at you in a way that that project has changed me? And this is how it’s changed me. So any project like that, that comes to mind? Yeah,
Tok
quite a few. Quite? Quite a few. One, because yeah, I can. I can pick one, I guess. Yeah. And I think for me, that project, the reason why change to me, was, it was a great example of collaboration. So we talk about, you know, all projects have their kind of very busy times. And, and, you know, not so busy times, right? This particular project was, it was a new client. Right? And also, it was a lot of new team members, right, new to consulting, right. I think where we were in day one was probably not a great place. Right. But actually, what is amazing, is on day 150, is where we got to, right, and the trust that we built. And, and for me, that particular one, and it was around. I think it was mainly around the camaraderie that we had, in that. We all, you know, there were some huge challenges, but we faced the challenges together. I still to this day, have some brilliant conversations with the people that I haven’t worked with for a few years. Right. Because they’ve, you know, like, in a lot of large consultancies, you sometimes, you know, get together with a team and then you might, you know, they might then move on to other areas. Right. So, yeah, I still, I’m still in contact with those people. And it’s purely because we went through this kind of experience together. Right. And, and, you know, it sounds it sounds a bit cliche, right. So you know, like, you have all these kind of weird and wonderful reality TV shows, right? where people go off and they go into the jungle, right. But for us, I think that is our that is our kind of example, right? where sometimes we have projects where we actually have these really kind of life building life skill building experiences. That we share with other individuals. Right? And, and for me, coming out of it the other end is such a great experience, right? Because like you, like I’ve said to you before pay, I love connections, right? I love connecting with people. And what better way to connect with somebody then to actually go through, you know, a huge kind of implementation project with somebody. And yeah, don’t get me wrong. There were late nights, you know, there might have been one or two all nighters, right. But it was all working towards everyone working towards that kind of end goal. Like,
Pei Mun Lim
yeah, I’m just going to take this opportunity to just touch on that. In particular, I think it’s human nature, that when you go through really intense experience, you create this bond. So I read this book on this Marine, and how he talked about his brothers, when they want to us together. And when he came on became a civilian, that he didn’t see that and he couldn’t make those connections, because everyone’s experience was, seemed very superficial and shallow, and you’d see people fighting at a cop Hall, and he wouldn’t be able to understand it. But then, you know, the whole book was around those experiences that he had, and how they built long lasting relationships outside of the Warzone. And then I heard another story in 2004, there was a tsunami, it was very big in Asia, Southeast Asia. And in particular, I heard about this where two couples who went on holiday together and think, one of each partner when scuba diving, and the you know, that their respective partner stayed on on the shore. And what happened was the survived both couples, but the two partners who went scuba diving, because they had experienced such an intense moment, you can kind of guess what happened, both marriages broke up, in the two who were out at sea had got together. And so it’s things like this, and also things like what happened after 911 with the firemen, who then had to comfort the grieving widow of the teammate, because they shared that intense experience. So so my my theory, my non expert theory on human behavior is being created, right environment, you, you select the right individuals, or we’re talking about team members come in, and you have a mission or an objective. In this case, it’s a project and your projects, ups and downs, and especially when things are get bumpy. If you have the right individuals, you can create that you can create that team. And I think it’s quite exhilarating when you’re going through, isn’t it to have somebody so in sync with you, you know, how they’re going to react when an email comes in that, you
Tok
know, it’s going to provoke a reaction? Absolutely. And it’s one of those things again, right that you can’t, you know, afterwards, I’ve seen many slides on that particular engagement, where, you know, they’ve been bullet pointed that, oh, this this happened, right. But what you can never bullet point is, is that experience, right? And that is just something that, you know, it’s almost memory, what you learned from it, what you share with the other people, you almost can’t put that into into words, right? It’s just what what you deem as the experience, right? And you take and you take the learnings with you for like your next engagement. Correct? Correct.
Pei Mun Lim
I really like that. So I’m not going to pivot back into the fact that you have more than doubled your team members since January, you were telling me and that kind of, you know, kind of blew my mind a little bit. Tell me again, so how many did you have in January?
Tok
And how many, so we had around 13. In January, just in the functional team? I know we’re probably at probably looking towards, like 28 or something like that. So yeah, it’s a there’s been quite a lot of increase in the numbers. I think it just proves how, you know, within the Salesforce ecosystem at the moment, the wider ecosystem. It all kind of boils down to the fact that you know, so many people Pull are now wanting Salesforce implementations. And I know Marc Benioff, you know, the figure for whatever the projected numbers were for, like from now until like 2024. Right, just keeps on doubling, tripling. So I think it’s, it’s just, you know, it’s the echo effect of of that, essentially. So lots of traction, and lots of things in the pipeline. One thing that we really wanted to also do is have quite a kind of diverse workforce as well. So kind of really happy to say that out of the 18 plus people that we’ve bought in, I think, for the first time ever, we’ve had like 10, who are female, which is, you know, which is really good, because it’s really showing that how the market has grown. Right. And it’s really providing those opportunities for for everybody, basically, and having that balance, right. Yeah, it needs to be. I think, as we go forward, particularly in consulting as well, it’s really good to see having the kind of balanced individuals from various backgrounds, you know, gender, etc. So really, really good to see. That’s, that’s
Pei Mun Lim
amazing. That’s fantastic. And it leads me to ask this question, and I think I know the answer. But so where I come from in Malaysia, we have a different population ratio of the Malays, and then Chinese Woodrum, one part. And then the Indians who have immigrated in early 60s and 70s, during British colonial rule. Now, when we have cooperations that put together or teams or things like that there is a there’s a mandatory, you must, you must adhere to a specific ratio of the races that you hire or your point. And that leads to a situation where it’s not entirely meritocratic. So because we have to follow this, you know, this formula, whatever that might be, then it’s not down to we are picking the best from the pull that we’ve got. So just going back to what you were talking about, in that you were saying, right, you want to make sure that your team is diverse, and that you now have at the intake is, you know, there’s more females tell me that that’s not the, you know, the path that you took, and that the pool that you’ve had, is showing up had females are actually qualified for the roles? In not, because you wanted to make sure that you had to buy diversity.
Tok
So yeah, absolutely pay. So everything that has gone to happen is what I always say is, is that the best things to happen is always when they happen in or in an organic way. And then in an unplanned way. Right. So absolutely, you know, individuals that have come into the team, you could essentially take the names away from the profiles, right? And you could basically say, Whoa, great experience, right? And really, you know, has some really good experience. And then almost like, when you get to interview stage, it’s like, you know, and then that then then you see the person, right. So yeah, definitely, it’s kind of all fortunately happened really organically. But I think I think the main factor in that is because actually, I think Salesforce ecosystem is probably juiced probably didn’t used to be, but I think now is probably one of the most diverse that we have, particularly around the consult the consulting great. And I think what’s kind of led to it is the fact that Salesforce, as you know, has this kind of global community. Right. I think what is really good about that, and what I think consultancies, particularly somebody like consulting like Capgemini is to really ride that wave with them right, as as a partner to basically Uh, you know, we are open to all individuals, right? And projects that we’ve that we’ve done in the past paying, you know, you know that we’ve had individuals, not just based in the UK, but in other countries, particularly South Asia. Right. And and yeah, so I think a lot of that drives has kind of driven the fact that we are getting such a brilliantly diverse kind of market for Salesforce opportunities out there.
Pei Mun Lim
It’s amazing. And the path that you know, the trending is, is going towards the future. That’s quite exciting. Now, one more question, with regard to the young generation that’s coming into the workforce. And I know that cap has got a really good graduate scheme that brings them up. What do you think having met some of the younger generations that’s coming in, in how they perceive the world? There has been a lot that’s been said about millennials, how they are, what their expectations are? Like? How does that match with how consulting is and how consulting is at Capgemini? And do you see a good fit for them? So basically, the core of the question is, if I’ve got friends and family who are coming through the school system just about to leave university? Should they look at consulting services consulting? And should they look at a life at Camp as a viable and peaceful option for them?
Tok
So absolutely. So I am, funnily enough, I’m just a millennial, right? I’ve just literally just scraped in as a millennial being like, 1981. Right. So I’m just a millennial. And what I would say pay is easier. Absolutely. Because remember, I said about being that kind of sponge. Right? And really taking or taking the overlain I think the opportunities there, particularly when you refresh graduate, right? Is, is just so immense, right? Because you and, and don’t forget, this is a project that is just so exciting. It’s forever evolving, right? So I think, I think what the type of world that we do live in now is is that people do want those quick wins, right? People want to be, you know, in two years time, I’m going to be VP I, and believe me, I’ve had conversations where people coming into their career think that that’s going to happen, right? But what I will say is, there’s a little bit of naivety there, so be prepared to be the sponge, but also be a bit realistic, right? People do want those quick wins. But what I will say easy is that you have to kind of stick to it a little bit further, to kind of get the end goal, right. So be trying be the toe toys, not the head. Right? Because what I will say and from my personal experience is is that need to spend a little bit more time shaping that skill set, spend a little bit more time on having more of those engagements with one particular consultancy. And what you’ll find is that you actually, on the on the outs on the outside of coming through the kind of consulting machine, you’re actually a lot more rounded consultant. And I think the individuals, particularly the graduates that we’ve had, that have kind of, you know, gone through two to three years, you know, in that journey, are actually now in a place where they are, the world is their oyster, right? Because not only have they got all the kind of Capgemini and the consultancy skill, but they also know enough about Salesforce. And Salesforce is just so exciting, right? In that, you know, there’s there’s always appetite to kind of learn more, and it’s forever evolving, right? So those two things together. You know, you You are. It’s, it’s, it’s like the treasure box. Right? If you’ve got those two things together, I think what I will advice, particularly new graduates is try not to be as naive to think that you would be able to encapsulate all that in like, a year or two years, right? Be sure to kind of really stick to one particular thing for a few years, right? Because that is what kind of will mold your skill set. And that’s something that I say to new graduates coming in. And Capgemini, as he said, you know, we do have quite a successful graduate scheme. And that’s what we try to kind of say to, to the young graduates, and again, the analogy pay is the car, right? And you driving it, what I will say is, don’t press the eject button and get out of the car quicker, don’t get get out of the car before you reach your destination. Yeah, because what I have seen is, sometimes over the last kind of five years, we’ve had a few graduates that maybe got out of the car a bit too soon. And then when you see them on LinkedIn, they’ve just gone from one place to another. Don’t a year, they’re done a year there. I always feel that I always think if they’d have just stuck with it for a few more years, maybe they wouldn’t be, you know, flitting around so much now.
Pei Mun Lim
Like that. So let me try and summarize all of it into three. So much wisdom there. So let’s start with how we started conversation. And I think the first one was his courage, the courage to grab hold of things to own and be accountable for your journey in your success. Absolutely. The second would be persistence is what you’re trying to say, don’t get out of the car, know what you want, even if you don’t quite know what you want, but have the persistence to stick with it until it bears fruit. And don’t just think, Oh, this is uncomfortable. Let me try something else as just building the internal fortitude to just build your skill set. And probably the third one, which you kind of mentioned, in different places is resilience, to just be able to kind of push through and bounce back when you know when things may not be going your way. Do you think I missed anything?
Tok
The I think your bag on? So thank you. Brilliant summary.
Pei Mun Lim
Fantastic. I want to be very mindful of your time. I think we’ve gone a little bit over. But this has been such a treasure. You know, just going back to your your your London’s calling to you you had once you take that it was a treasure trove of discovery of riches. Yeah, that’s right. This has been amazing, because it’s so so much in here in today’s talk, specifically around the career path around graduate than how someone new can come and create a future. I think the future is really, really bright. With consulting, especially with cap. So just before we go, and I don’t want to get people to inundate you with connection requests, if they’re interested in this, there is a link right for them to apply to the graduate program. Yes,
Tok
yeah. Absolutely. And also, there’s, so there’s a link on the website. And also, you know, feel free to kind of ping me on LinkedIn as well. So happy, happy to kind of take that.
Pei Mun Lim
Are you sure there’s gonna be like tons of people? Absolutely. But no, this is, this has been an amazing combination. I really appreciate you taking the time out with me. So this, I think, is one of the more valuable ones that a lot of newcomers in the ecosystem and also to consulting will find extremely valuable. Thank you so much, Tok.
Tok
I really appreciate the problem both thank you so much for having me, and hopefully we can catch up soon again.
Pei Mun Lim
I’m sure you notice a lot more topic that we could carry on talking about so let’s let’s let’s pop Part Three for now. I think this has been amazing. Thank you so much again, brilliant. Thank you. Thanks a lot.