Part 2 of my conversation with Chris Pearson, Salesforce Director at Jostens … I just had to extend our conversation to learn more about his life.
In this episode, he delves much deeper into how he got to where he was, the journey of self discovery around finding his groove, and what university education is important for.
We discuss what candidates can to do stand out when interviewing, and getting people to be interested in you.
If you’re just starting out in your Salesforce career, you dont want to miss this episode!
I hope that you enjoy the podcast.
#OnThePeiroll
Transcript
Pei Mun Lim
Chris, welcome to part two of my podcast on the payroll. How are you today? Oh, doing great. Thanks for having me. Happy Friday. Friday is always a happy day. Our last conversation was really very, very fascinating, because, as I mentioned to you are, you’re probably the first person that I know that’s covered so many clouds in the Salesforce ecosystem from a customer point of view. And I think that adds so many feathers to capsule, I think, if at any point, you want to jump ship into consulting, I know loads of people who would want to get their hands on you. But apart from that, I’m actually kind of interested a little bit more about your personal journey. So if you allow me to ask the questions, I would like to know a little bit about your childhood, your growing up your schooling and your learning in terms of how it’s shaped who you are today?
Chris P
Sure, a very broad question. So you’ll, you’ll have to kind of help me, guide me down the path.
Pei Mun Lim
Take it wherever you wish to go. Let your own gut field guide you. And I’ll let my curiosity guide me in where we take it.
Chris P
Yeah, well, I guess from from a regional perspective, I’m based here in Houston, Texas, I’ve been a lifelong native Texan. So born and raised spent my entire life in this state of Texas and you know, so if I think about my prior to university, so going through through high school and elementary school, middle school, you know, you’re you’re almost constantly asked, as a child, what do you want to be when you grow up? What do you want to be, and I I never really had that crystallized vision. I, I admired others who were so laser focused, they knew exactly what they wanted to be. And you know, that that kind of probably inspired a sense of jealousy to some extent. And so I, you know, I had great grades and all of that and decided to go to an in state public university, a really large school called Texas a&m University, which has a, I guess, a size of at the time, around 40,000 students. So you know, I was a small fish in a very big pond, and I started my career, my undergraduate career in the business school, and, again, didn’t know exactly where to go and kind of followed parental advice to go down this path of finance because I was told at the time finance will give you the most career opportunities because you’ll get a little bit of math and numbers and then you’re going to be applying it and to more management style and kind of giving both sides of the coin. But it turns out I really didn’t like finance, I so I kind of i would say i i would say i coasted my way through you know, I studied enough to make the to make the grades and and came out with a degree in finance but I still I really didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life. I I knew I wanted to be independent I had been raised by my parents are still married today celebrating about to celebrate, I think their 45th wedding anniversary, I had a have a sister who was younger, make loss to join me at school. And I was motivated to really prove myself to I really did not want to move back in with my parents I was I was determined to find my own way. And my first job out of school was actually in the retail world you know, working at a at a clothing store, a clothing store that kind of has an interesting reputation. I don’t know if you’re, you you’re a fan of Abercrombie and Fitch, you know, the the clothing store much more of a younger clothing, targeting targeting the younger kids market. So I spent about three or four months doing retail and there’s nothing like doing a certain job that can really help crystallize what you want to do. In this case, it helped me understand exactly what I did not want to do, which was working in retail, working the crazy hours. Did you know dealing with We all have to deal with people. But dealing with people in a retail sit scenario was, I think, very different than an office situation. So from there, I was able to kind of hop into a couple different jobs that were more in the finance realm. So kind of by relying on my background, from from school and as a as a credit analyst as a mortgage underwriter, but I’d always had a deep rooted passion for technology for electronics, I was, it was just, it was always something from the very first time I got a computer, I remember, I think it was maybe my 11th or 12th birthday, where, and this is going to really date me, but the presence my birthday present, I think for like my 12th birthday was a was a dial up modem was a 28 28k whatever they call it modem, and you know, with all the beeps and scratches and all of that, but it connected me to the internet and and that really started to open open a door for me. Of course, I was going through something called America Online at that time. But that’s, I think, really what kind of started to distill, and figure out for me was planting seeds in this world of technology, and how could I apply it?
Pei Mun Lim
So what do you you got your modem, you’re connected to AOL, what what kind of things you did when you were online at that time.
Chris P
It was a whole lot of just reading, exploring, understanding, you know, how, like, downloading programs, downloading applications, trying to play to play games, and, and really sort of see what the world of computers and the web offered at the time, but it was windows completely as a consumer side. So I it’s, it’s tough to sometimes relate some of that to what I do. Now, other than saying that it was there was an interest. And there was a, there was a desire to learn more. And I think that kind of carries over to me today. Like I’m, I’m motivated by by by learning more, figuring out how you can apply new things, new principles to solving problems, or helping people solve other problems.
Pei Mun Lim
So he has a question. In your current role do you do so you you’re a head of department? Am I correct? Yes. Do you so you do take a very active part in the recruitment process of growing your teams?
Chris P
I do. Absolutely. So you know, that the promotion, the recruiting, the hiring, the onboarding, the feedback sessions, the coaching along the way, totally.
Pei Mun Lim
So tell me about what you observe as so obviously, the let me let me split the question slightly. So the people who are looking for jobs that there’ll be those who are experienced, what I’d like to focus on, all the younger generation has just come out of university, compare and contrast that to when you came out of university. And now you’re meeting all these young folks? How are they different from you, in your peers? When you left university? How are they different?
Chris P
Um, wow, that’s, that is that’s a good one. I think, I don’t know, maybe it’s the fact that we’re sometimes tough on ourselves. But I think then, the newer, the younger generation, has exceptional communication skills, I would say, like, what I’ve noticed is their ability, they’re used to communicating in different types of mediums. So whether that’s engaging on social media platforms, like I’ve started to recruit on directly on LinkedIn, and whether that’s the verbal or the, you know, the in person meetings and all of that. The other thing, though, I think that that hasn’t changed is still that the fact that a lot of times in, in my, in my experience, you know, when you’re going through university, they’re there. They’re there not exactly preparing you for the reality of the corporate world. They’re, you know, they’re, they’re kind of almost filling your heads that you should be a certain place in your career, you know, after I remember hearing from some of my some business professors, you know, in one to two years, you know, you’re going to be a manager and you’re going to be responsible, and this is speaking to a very broad classroom. So when you hear that and you’re you’re an under And you don’t know any better, you start to internalize that thought, and you start to kind of create this journey for yourself. And, and to me, it led to a lot of frustration, you know, because it was, I had this, this mindset of you’re supposed to be at a certain place in your career at a certain time. And I think that we can really find ourselves comparing ourselves to others, or comparing ourselves to the thoughts of, or the plans of others, or professors who mean well, but may, may not may, or may not be in touch with exactly your industry, or the type of the size of the company you’re doing, or even the type of job you’re doing. And so I find, I try and impart that wisdom on our that experience on the younger generation is, is really saying to, it’s going to take time, you know, acknowledge, like I, I find myself getting frustrated that I think I’m going to have it all figured out, like, I’m going to understand this brand new 2000 user, or let’s just talk about like my current situation, 2000 user org, three different business units, three different clouds, I’m thinking, Okay, I’ve done this Salesforce stuff for a decade, and I’ve been a business analyst slash Project Manager for another 10 years prior to that, I’m gonna get this, you know, and you kind of like, have yourself psyched up as far as Oh, you know, in a, in a couple of weeks, I’m going to totally have this complete understanding of the business model and the business process. But I found myself really getting frustrated, because it just, it wasn’t clicking. And I think that’s something really important to the younger generations to know that it takes time it takes for me, learning the hard way, making, making mistakes, but then recognizing what those mistakes were and then doing your very best to not repeat history.
Pei Mun Lim
So let me take you back to something you said earlier, where you said, You felt that they communicated well, who’s gonna enroll into that slightly. So what I’m noticing is, you’re correct, the younger generation do have a much more affinity for technology, because they grew up with it. And social media and etc. But a lot of the communication is very, through the different mediums have been short, like tweets, and messages, and emojis and things like that. And they’ve got good handled in terms of, you know, communicating that way. But how about what you just said there about? taking time to understand something that requires deep thought? And also, even with all the experience that you’ve had you still, it was still not as easy as you thought it would be? Now, I think, you know, just looking at my children, I think they’re very, in the instant gratification kind of mode. Are you want to buy something? mungkin? Just add it to Amazon? And is it gonna be here tomorrow? It’s a bit like that, oh, watch, his movie is on Netflix. There’s no real waiting. There’s no real sense of if I want to make a deep friendship, I actually have to do a bit more than just send a couple of spammy texts my son’s doing at the moment. How about those who are coming through? So when you say they communicate? Well, do you see a level that I don’t see in terms when you say that they’re able to grasp the communication aspect?
Chris P
Yeah, I mean, there’s, it’s it, I didn’t mean to paint an entire generation with broad strokes. There’s a spectrum, right? But if you if you look at it, there is never before ban a time where you’ve got individuals who can create their own platform, you know, they can they’ve, they’ve either they’ve got style blogs, they’ve got YouTube channels, they’ve got newsletters, they’ve got thought leadership. I mean, in the in the Salesforce world, you see, you know, all all sorts of that people who are, you know, learning new skills, and then starting their own volunteer organizations to kind of bring up other individuals and these are individuals. We’re still at the very early part of their career. But there’s also there’s also others that, you know, that may not have as well refined communication skills. I guess recently, I was I was interviewing a, for a junior Salesforce admin position. And this was an individual who had quit engaged with me on social media. And I am impressed me enough where I was. I said, Let’s, let’s put, let’s put this person through the process, the hiring process, you know, some go through the paces, talking to HR talking to some key team members, and, and the reviews were all positive. So it was time for her and I to get on the phone and get on teams calling and start talking. And it was interesting, because she immediately froze up and you know, kind of, kind of at the beginning of the conversation just said she was extremely nervous, and it was off, it was off to a pretty rocky start. So we, you know, tried to I tried to kind of break her down as far as you know, understanding to talk to me about your background, what you’re looking for, and all of that and week in, she gave me some some great answers and all of that. But then we got to a point where I said, well, so you know what i want to get, I’ve been throwing some questions that you I want to give you the opportunity to ask me so. And she said she didn’t have any. And to me that it took me aback because it was it I think if you were from a from a younger generation, I was trying to put myself in her shoes thinking she felt like she had spoken to multiple people in the organization probably asked a lot of different questions to understand expectations, and real and felt like she was comfortable and knew exactly what the job entails. But she missed an opportunity to really reconfirm those expectations with the hiring manager. And I think that that is something that reconfirming expectations, constantly setting, realigning. Expectations is such an important life lesson that I that I need to get better in my personal life. And I definitely need to continue to in my professional because we I find myself creating, in my mind what I expect to see, you know, we’ve been working on this project, let’s go through a demo I want to see, you know, I want to see this well orchestrated demo with a great storyline where someone knows the exact clip paths to go through. And it really pops. And it’s succinct, and tells a great story. But that’s not always the case. And so, to me, what I found helpful is to start taking those expectations out of my mind, putting them on paper, putting them putting writing them down verbalizing them. And I found that to be a more helpful technique for, for communicating. Today, it’s
Pei Mun Lim
a couple things in there. So one was with regards to the job applicant. So she had no questions for you. And it sounds like the fact that she missed that opportunity to I think not just reconfirm her expectations, but also to connect with you in a slightly different way, was the opportunity that was missed. How did you? Was she successful getting through? Did you think that she
Chris P
worked, she was successful, she was successful for for salaries, and she you know, demonstrate enthusiasm. People underestimate that skill, it goes a long way, there is nothing more energizing to me than talking to someone who’s excited to talk to you, you know, like, I don’t think we would be having this conversation for a second time if I didn’t express some enthusiasm about talking to pink. So that goes a long way. From there. I you know, I realized that, you know, this is this is someone who’s at the very beginning part of their journey. They don’t know what they don’t know. So I asked a couple more probing questions, and started to kind of peel back the onion and then got a couple more questions with her. But the things that if I was in her shoes, I would have wanted to reconfirm the things like you don’t have to get into the technical details of of Salesforce and ask, you know, what edition are you on? And you know, how many custom objects or users do you have? But things to me that show that high emotional intelligence? Like what’s your management style, you know, how do you communicate expectations? How do you sell to me another great question, how do you celebrate wins or accomplishments not even recognize people and what happens when you miss deadlines and what do you do like those are two main things questions that Are are great ones that you should ask in any in any scenario whether you know whether you’re working to be hoping to be a volunteer consultant or joining them on the client team, and no matter what your role is, I think the answers to all of that can really set your expectations so that you are not walking into a situation where they aren’t met.
Pei Mun Lim
Those are scary questions, though. They’re not questions that people are used to asking. Because a lot of people won’t tell you what the true story is, they’ll probably tell you what you want to hear. So they are scary questions for for a lot of people to ask like, what will? What would you do if I messed up? What do you know why we because it just carries so much judgment and punishment and law negativity? So I think I think that’s, you know, if someone asked it, it would show a high sign of emotional intelligence. You’re absolutely correct. But I think I’m thinking back younger me, we just never ever asked about this.
Chris P
Oh, I agree. It takes a certain point in, in your age, I don’t know. And you’re moving into adulthood, where you get a little bit more confidence, you know, you stop caring as much, and you’ve got kind of that stronger backbone, and everyone gets it at a certain age, and some people have more of it than than others. But to me, those, it took experience, it took being treated a certain way. For me to start asking those questions. And I guess I would, I would chat I hear you, I hear you on those are scary questions. But my, my, my answer to that is, what’s scarier not knowing the answer to those questions and having to find out the hard way? Or would you rather know those upfront so that you can at least make a decision? You know, when would you rather know, in the dating phase or once you’re married? Absolutely,
Pei Mun Lim
absolutely. Okay, so I’m just going to go to the second part of what you said earlier, around, communicating your expectations, and we’re talking about wanting to see a demo and see the happy path and etc, etc. And you felt that just articulating it that way, wasn’t good enough, and that you had to come right down to the details that correct to actually write it down and say, This is what I expect. Is that what use? Oh, yeah,
Chris P
absolutely. I mean, I think that preserving things in, you know, creating an artifact creating, capturing the notes from the conversation its way it was, it’s way more successful than simply verbalizing it. Because we all have it, you never know where someone’s at that day, they may be, they may be dealing with a ton of different distractions, it may be a maybe a couple days before they pick that piece of work back up. So having something to kind of preserve that, you know, those those decisions or those expectations, to me is is the best way, because then you’re immediately able to pull that back up and say, All right, here’s, here’s where we left off. Let’s Let’s continue.
Pei Mun Lim
Thank you. I think that’s quite important. I was just thinking, as you’re saying that, I was thinking about our, I used to listen to love self development tapes, and Stephen Covey was one of the things that listened to, and he was talking about telling his youngest son how to manage the yard and said, this is your yard, you are the steward of this, keeping this and rule was green and clean. And these are what I expect, but how you do that is up to you. So as you were saying in terms of expectations, it is to say, this is what I want to see. But, you know, it’s, it’s up to you to make it work. So that was that was what was going through my head. Now you were talking about you went to university, and you’ve met the whole young people joining your company recruiting into your team. Do you feel that for this day and age that university degrees still important?
Chris P
Um, you know, I’ve read a lot. I see lots of I read a lot about the commentary about it. I’d say you know, it’s, it’s definitely it definitely teaches you something like it, you know, it what it does, is it trains Is your brain to to learn things and to apply things. And there’s something to be said about having four years of practice versus two, versus none. So, um, you know, I see a lot of stuff around, you know, some of the schools of thought that I’ve seen recently is that four year degree versus two years. And, and it’s sometimes it’s pretty hard to argue it’s like, for those four year degrees, I had to take a lot of extraneous classes, they call them electives, you know, that, that really did not contribute much. If anything, to where I’m at as a professional or my career, I took a recreational and forestry class, I took an archery class, I think I took weightlifting twice, you know, there’s just like, you know, the physical classes are great, but there’s something to be said about trying to modernize the the classroom experience and solving actually prop problems that organizations have and doing case studies and, and really my life really spare my my studies when it’s only spent about two years of my degree program doing that. So, and I’ve got, I’ve got team members, who don’t have a four year degree at all, on my on my team, but what they do have is experience and experience that applies well to the problems and tasks that they’re they’re having to solve. So I think to answer your question, it’s it The view is changing. I, to me, I when I when we’re posting jobs, I would make sure that that language says, if it says four year degree, which oftentimes is kind of like a HR type of mandate, it’s usually not like something the hiring manager usually cares about, like I don’t, the last thing I’m looking on on someone’s resume is the education, it’s usually it’s, it should always be ordered with your experience up top. And that education, at least that is on my resume. So for me, it’s I say, a four year degree or explore experience applicable experience in lieu of And so that kind of to me leaves it wide open for for, for candidates.
Pei Mun Lim
I think what you I’m offer very similar mindset. Although I think we both come from a slightly more privileged background, because it costs money to go to university. And I was just reading a post about this lawyer from America, and she graduated in 2002, which is just finished paying off. And I reckon it’s very close to half a million dollars, in total, how much she had to pay back. So I, you know, I was lucky enough to have parents who sacrificed to send me to university. And I think just like you that it has provided a very rounded view of how to learn critical thinking, problem solving, and just sitting down and articulating, comparing contrasting debating ideas, and that was quite useful. But nowadays, you know, as you were saying, but as younger generation who already start started on their, I’d say, entrepreneurship type learning and journey around creating maybe podcasts and newsletters and not for profits and things like that, and whether it’s obvious My children are growing up in I’m wondering if, because I’m in between, so, you are meeting those coming out of university now in mind will come, you know, so like 678 years after that, and how that could change the trajectory of society, especially around technology and whether universities, you know, we you, to me, and with all these online movement, you know, the Khan Academy, whether structure University is still important. So, your, your your opinion and insight was very, very useful. Thinking about that.
Chris P
I think, my, my, my final thought on that, I think is as you mentioned, those other other platforms, the the, to me the most valuable experience in college, you know, wasn’t reading the textbooks or, or the parties or the sports games or you know, the the school traditions, but the experience of group projects, because I think that that correlates the most to what it’s like in the working world. I mean, whether you’re going to be an entrepreneur, and you know, an army of one, I mean, I think that you’re, you’re, you’re going to need to be able to work in the corporate world, you’re going to need to be able to work well with others. And I think we’ve, for me, personally, those group projects, you deal with the same scenarios that you do in the working world, you’ve got people who are not pulling their weight, you know, you’ve got the overachiever, you’ve got the person that wants, you know, to do, you know, like, all of that wants to own a certain portion, or you’ve got to find individually the strengths of individuals and divvy up the work accordingly. And you’ve got to all be accountable, and manage conflicts. And so really, to me those skills, and finding a way to build those types of skills, whether it’s in a university, or whether it’s an online learning platforms, that’s to me like what the problem is that they need to solve.
Pei Mun Lim
I think you’re absolutely right. It’s all about communication and teamwork, although I have to say when, as you’re speaking, I’m thinking back about my group projects, and we had somebody who did not care about passing or failing, and that I do. And, and that was, that was just, that was just crazy. Thank you, thank you for that. So just looking back, on, on everything on B, I’d like to know, if you can share some big life learning mistakes that you’ve made, if there’s any that you’d like to share.
Chris P
In legs, you know, I, there’s almost there’s too many, too many to list. And I don’t want to repeat myself, but you know, those know, you know, expectations, to me, like figuring out a way to communicate two ways, expectations. Probably one of the biggest lessons that I still need to continue to do. Others would be recognizing the value in, in, you know, in, in retros. And looking back on your career, on your projects, realizing there’s, you know, three things that come out of a good retro, what went well, where, what you what didn’t go well, and then what you want to change. And so thinking about those, thinking about problems and experiences in those constructs, and most importantly, figuring out like what you’re going to do to change in the future, I think it’s critical. Another another one, I guess, that I that I picked up along the way was this concept of, of professional baggage. And we all carry emotional baggage with us, right? Whether it’s, you know, experiences with significant others, or children or parents or family that’s, that creates all of those lifelong experiences, create, we all we all carry it emotional baggage, but we also have a form of professional baggage. And that’s can surface in multiple ways, comparing oneself to others, you know, trying to take on take on the world or never feeling like you’re getting the recognition that you deserve. There’s 20 million other flavors of that. And I think what one of the most important lessons is realizing that baggage, the definition of baggage is it’s something you carry with you. And you know, you don’t really there’s sometimes you may, you may not ever be able to let it go. And so I’ve worked in a ton of different industries, with organizations, big 95,000 100,000 organizations to anything from to much smaller 1000 employee shops and maybe even smaller than that. And what I’ve realized is that I carry the same set of thoughts and expectations and internal professional baggage, no matter what the job is, and it’s an eye in we often think that we’re going to leave something behind where we’re moving jobs and getting a new title getting more pay or working in a different industry. But the frustrating thing can be the fact that those same thoughts that you thought you were Leaving behind can start to creep in. And I think it’s just important to recognize that what it is and what you’re carrying with you. So you can you can do everything to mitigate it, minimize it.
Pei Mun Lim
What’s really useful? Thank you for what’s the, do you have one person who has impacted you the most? growing up?
Chris P
Growing up, I was actually going to get to answer that in a professional sense, okay. So, I would say, the, probably my primary, you know, is a manager, who, who gave me the start in, in the industry that I ultimately wanted to do, and that was like getting I was getting that first job as a as a business analyst. So this this individual Well, you know, I was, I had very little experience, and I had found I was interviewing with, he was the SVP of corporate operations at a large mortgage lending institution. And this was back in the early 2000s, or mid mid 2000s. And he, he saw, he took a chance on me and gave me the opportunity to grow into a business analyst, grow, make mistakes, make a ton of mistakes, on his dime on his timeline. But also give me the opportunity to training opportunities to prod the breadth of projects, to really expand my knowledge, and instill a sense of like, passion and enthusiasm and ownership. And so I still, I still stay at stay in contact with him, and and recognize him, and frankly, thank him not as often as I should, but really just saying, Thank you again, for the opportunity that you gave me in being able to kind of start my career off in a certain direction, because I felt like I wasn’t listless before that.
Pei Mun Lim
Please, amazing, because he is not just impacted you. But I would hazard a guess that you have brought that leadership style to your current role. And that your team is benefiting actually, by proxy, the lessons that you’ve learned from him. And it sounds like the he created a safe environment for you to learn to make mistakes, and to grow. And that seems like to me has always been, you know, a recipe for just creating great team great connections between people. And I would like to say hazard a guess that you’ve brought that into your style? Oh, I think I think so. I think that probably hear you anymore. Can you hear me? Yeah. sound great. Give me a moment. I’m wondering when I’ve run out of battery. or switch to can you say something? Can you hear me? Now? Yes. Oh, good now, right. I don’t know what happened. He just went. Okay. Yes. So So it sounds like you’ve brought that style of management people management leadership to your, to your team as well.
Chris P
I hope so. I think that’s it’s, it’s something that I take a lot, I put a lot of emphasis and value in, in some of those lessons and just treating people the way that I wanted to be treated. You know that that professional baggage about not not getting recognized and not then feeling like I wasn’t appreciated. Try and I don’t do it enough. But I really do internalize that and try and apply those principles to the team.
Pei Mun Lim
It’s amazing, you know that that when you do something like that you’re touching a lot more lives than just the people under your care. So here’s a question. Have you watched the movie sliding doors? Yes, I have. So do you have a sliding door moment?
Chris P
Oh, gosh. sliding door moments were my life my life could have taken. Yeah, I guess it probably would have just been trying to find that first step first job out of university. You know, as you know, going coming with a with a certain degree, you know, they at least I don’t know how it is now but your the companies and opportunities that you were presented with were very much for the most part aligned to your degree program. So a lot of the stuff that I was the the roles and the jobs that I was interviewing worth for or for, you know, accounting firms I was, that was a big play was, at the time, it was like the big six now, it’s like the big four, but a lot of those accounting roles where, you know, you’d be exposed as an auditor to accompany and learn some new industry. So I think if I went on several of those interviews, made it made it to multiple steps through and I think if I would have taken that path, I would have been in a no offense to the accountants of the world, but a much less creative profession, then the world of technology. And I think that so I’m, I’m thankful, I think I took a I took a meandering path by going into retail first and finding my way, but I think that was probably one of my early moments.
Pei Mun Lim
Thank you, sorry, your answer. And something else is just kind of like, curl up crystallized into the this question that I want to ask him just circling back to. So I know you were recruiting for junior Salesforce admins. And then you had a lot of a lot of responses. And then we exchanged some messages about that. And then you spoke about this young young lady that you decided to put her put her through the process? Just to kind of close up our chat today. Can you identify in the process from beginning to end? how someone might? What are the things that someone can do to put themselves in the forefront of the process at every stage for a position in your company? So from the beginning, right up to when they get an opportunity to speak to you? And you know, every step? Can you help me break that down?
Chris P
Yeah. So I’m not, I’m not people shouldn’t be shy, and I’m not shy to engage with people. So. But what you’ve got to realize, to me, you’ve got to realize as a potential candidate, that you’re putting yourself out there when you’re reaching out to that hiring manager. And if hiring managers or anything like me, they’re getting hit all the time with pitches for things, you know, services and sales people, and would you like this? And are you interested in that. But what you need to realize is, your message should provide something of value, something that presents yourself in in a way in a light that is intriguing where they want to be interested in you, you’re demonstrating some knowledge and understanding of the job. Ideally, the company to maybe you’re asking some probing questions, or maybe you’re taking, you know, taking some some recent news and actually saying, I saw it, you know, saw the company was was was doing X, Y, and Z didn’t know if you were leveraging Salesforce to support, you know, those initiatives or things like that. So, to me, it’s, it’s asking thought provoking questions. And when what happened with this young lady was actually a saw some things on a resume. And I decided to, you know, ask her some couple questions like what, tell me tell me a little bit more about that experience, because I wanted to know, she gave really thoughtful answers that That, to me was good enough for to put her through the process. Other things that people can do is, is figuring is realizing that an interview is not just one way, you know, it’s not just the person asking you questions, but but come up with some with some questions like those. They don’t have to be industry, they don’t have to be specific about the company, but just like those ones that we talked about earlier about leadership style, or how do you work well with the team or, you know, what’s a recent win that’s been celebrated? Those kinds of things, as well as I think just follow ups. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s hard to. It’s hard to see to not see the value in someone sending like a thank you note. It doesn’t need to be a hand written letter, mailed, which is what what I used, which was the old school of thought, but you know, a simple email. Thank you again for your time. I think that you know, my experience with this and that and the other, and then what you said about X, Y, and Z would make me makes me really excited to continue the conversation, those kinds of things can’t hurt.
Pei Mun Lim
Oh, that’s amazing. I think. For me, when I started the part two of the conversation, I thought this is going to be me just learning more about you because I’m just very curious person, nosy that made you what you become today. But also, I think what’s really great about the conversation is that you brought so much value over to my listeners, not just me, especially around your you’re talking about your path through the education system, and how you got your job, as well as we also talked about the younger generation that you’ve been interviewing and how they might that, you know, take the first step into Salesforce ecosystem, or even working with yourself, for example. So you provide a huge amount of value there, not just to me, but also to the audience. I just really want to thank you for making time. Second time to talk to me today, Chris.
Chris P
Thanks so much. I really appreciate you sharing your time with me and, and given me the opportunity to hear from you. And you’ve asked a lot of left thought provoking questions. So thank you.
Pei Mun Lim
I’m glad I really enjoyed this. So thank you so much again, Chris.
Speak to you. Thanks.