Season 2, Episode 18 of my podcast is out! In this episode, I speak to Charlotte Buton, Alliances Manager for #Salesforce and #Mulesoft at Capgemini.
We initially met at Wendy (Barbara) Morée‘s monthly Womens Network Partner & Eco-system meetup where she shared some vulnerable moments during covid.
#MentalHealth was a core topic, especially how to deal with emotional journey of isolation, and toxic positivity that can be extremely detrimental to health.
This was recorded early in March and we finally got to meet in person at London’s Calling and at the World Tour ❤
Spotify link: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7wFY3mkpEL0nfohdaTPeF8?si=rWS0YsISTCuFQhKZMVKepQ
Enjoy!
#OnThePeiroll
Transcript
Pei Mun Lim 0:05
Hello, and welcome to OnThePeiroll, my podcast about leadership, Salesforce consulting, project delivery, and project management. And more importantly, today’s topic, we talked about mental health in this industry. My guest today is Charlotte. And interestingly, we met on LinkedIn. She is currently working as a in alliances, and she says, In Capgemini. But before this, we met on LinkedIn. And it was because of the fact that she’d been very well traveled. And she’d actually studied and lived in China that piqued my interest. We talk about mental health, and specifically how the pandemic has affected a lot of people and the kinds of things that people are worried about talking about, and why that’s so important nowadays, to make sure that we look after the mental health of everyone, not just those who are truly suffering because the pandemic has hit them in a really big way, for example, taking away their livelihood, but those who are getting by, are still struggling. So in this episode, we talk about why it is so important to talk about mental health. I really hope that you enjoyed this topic, and enjoy the conversation that I had with Charlotte as much as we did in making it. Thank you.
Hi, Charlotte, welcome to my podcast OnThePeiroll. Thank you so much for making time to talk to me today. But I’d like to know How are you feeling? How are you feeling today?
Charlotte Buton 2:04
Today? I’m feeling great. Actually, yesterday, it was the first time I was going back to zero fees that Capgemini is this year. So it was so exciting. So it was an early on sales meetup as well, because we could like many we couldn’t have the Christmas party, you know, in December, it was canceled. So it was kind of like a Christmas party postpone you know, but like, just to meet have a nice dinner. So it’s just good to have the occasion to go back to the office now.
Pei Mun Lim 2:30
Oh, fantastic. I would like to start the conversation, as I always do, by asking you to just tell us a story about yourself. Tell us about the journey that you’ve been through. And how you got to where you are today in the kind of learnings that you’ve had. Along the way.
Charlotte Buton 2:50
It has been quite a roller coaster. So obviously I could have started the journey like when I joined the Salesforce ecosystem as well as the RF years ago. But I think the most important is like I was working as an SDR for quite a few years. And I’ve really fought hard to get to becoming an audience’s manager, you know, because I knew that like, in one of my company, there was a large you know, often Allium sales manager to build a relationship with digital agencies who would actually recommends a products to their companies on their behalf because they had this trusted relationship with their clients. And because I was doing a very good job as an SDR is they give me the chance to actually become this audience this person, so not with the title of manager yet, but to join the audience’s partnership team to be able to do so and I was mashing targets. I was so happy it was working. My boss was very happy to great success in just four months. But then the pandemic hits. And suddenly, everything I built just fell apart because I was made redundant because unfortunately for me, my CEO didn’t believe in the power of alliances, he actually wanted everything to be done internally. So he wanted the sales team to sell directly the product so he could have control over the sales pitch instead of relying on partners to be able to do so. So I have the option between going back to my SDR position that I started to hate towards the end because I was ready for the next step or accept the redundancy package and try to get a new role. As you can imagine, during a pandemic and when you’re just jumped into the new Allianz role like as it was not many opportunities as they were, they needed someone with more experience. But I got very lucky because after three months like the company BRP consulting gave me the opportunity to become an alliances manager to end those relationships with the ISV partners. They believed in me they saw that like my skills in talking with people and building relationship would be a breath of fresh air to actually like really workflow Mostly with them. But at the same time, I ended up facing the imposter syndrome for quite a few months, because I’m like, I was made redundant, you know. So my confidence and self esteem was so low. I talked to you about this, right, like, yeah, and I was glad to hear that a lot of people were filling. But yeah, impostor syndrome was bad. I was not asking the right support to my company, sinks improved for time, and they were all fantastic. When we met face to face when things reopened, they were fantastic people working with me, because then I realized after a year is that the company was not the right fit for me, because I needed I was alone in the alien system, they trusted me entirely. But it was still new for me. And I needed someone to report to directly like an alien sis director to give me guidance, coaching and all. Plus, I wanted the hybrid working skin because I would have had to keep working from home because I didn’t have an office in London. And that’s where I got very lucky because the Salesforce ecosystem recruits heavily. And when I actually decided I was change of job, so well as so many offers for allowances, managers, the relationship with Salesforce, I had several interviews. And then I just, when I got the offer from Capgemini, I knew this was a place I wanted to go to, because the two people I would report to were just fantastic. They had a lot of experience. They made me feel comfortable. And obviously I had the I breed working possibility. And now it’s been, I think, four months since I’ve been in the company and I have no regret to make that choice. And I think that like I’ve been a long way since by beginning in early on sales to being exactly where I should be and where I want to be.
Pei Mun Lim 6:57
Fantastic. So I’m just going to pull you back slightly. Because I’m in delivery. I’ve always been in delivery of projects in sales is not in I step in during the pre sales role and things like that. For the audience that’s, you know, who might be listening. So just define what SDR is when you say SDR?
Charlotte Buton 7:17
Yeah, you’re right. I actually have a tendency to just say SDR because I worked for so many years as ones I like for me, it’s an obvious term. So SDR means sales, development or presents itself. So I am the person who was doing the cold calls to actually get meeting books for the sales team. So the idea is like, I’ve got an industry I was working on. So at the time it was travel, hospitality and automotive. So thank God, I was working on it before the pandemic, because I’m pretty sure that’s you via travel and hospitality, this time, I would have been in big trouble. But no, at the time, I was lucky, it was an industry blooming in needs of of the product. So my role was to find out a contact at a high position, who would be interested in discussing the solution. So I would do a bit of qualification to understand that the technology that we’re using at the moment the issues that we’re facing related to the product we were selling, and then obviously arrange a phone call with my account executive. So she would get into the detail of what the solution could do, how we could solve it. And other later stage a demo to really shows the capabilities.
Pei Mun Lim 8:30
Thank you for that. Now, it sounds like this is something that you’ve been doing for quite a while. And then you you know, is being in alliance, is that something that you’ve always wanted to do?
Charlotte Buton 8:41
I didn’t actually know what I wanted to do. The reality is like, yeah, you know me a bit. And you know, my profile, I actually did International Business Studies. And then I decided to specialize in fashion marketing for my master’s degree. But as you can imagine, between fashion marketing and technology, there is quite a huge gap there. But it’s just that in London, the fact that was not an English native speaker was very hard to get jobs in fashion marketing, especially if you don’t have the contacts. And then the few offers I found in the public relation, I was interested in public relation at the time. The salary was just rubbish. We’re talking below 20k in London, it was absolutely ridiculous. So at the time, I was working in sales as a sales assistants in Massimo Dutti, and it was just really ready to pay the bills who knows a time I find something until one day the agency winetricks contacted me and asked me if I would be interested to jump in the technology industry. At a time obviously, I was a bit desperate to know like, none of the things I was planning with my life were working. So I ended up doing this assessment. They were like, they want to define your profile, you know, like, how you’re able to build relationships, your sales pitch attitude, you know, and I was hired by cloud sense as an SD yard’s deal mainly with the French market but also country in South Europe and, and that’s how I actually got my first experiences of Salesforce ecosystem. I did this a year, but it didn’t quite work out because of the language barrier because I was the only person speaking French, you know and German. And then no one in the sales team would speak a second language show every relationship I would build with a French market couldn’t treat it as a proper follow ups as they should have. So I decided to give myself a chance and to live somewhere else. So I ended up selling in decibel. And I worked there for a while as SDR promoted to Senor because I was smashing target and getting some of the biggest deal closing that I saw, what I was doing was big deals, what I realized was, I am more of a relationship builder person, you know, so I was like sales, direct sales is not for me, because I don’t have this kind of shark attitude, if you know what I mean, I know that not every salesperson is like this. But for me, I was more into the idea of building relationships at avec to the sales, we just had one person at a time was handling partnership, and then we had someone else joining. But I could still see that this partnership relationship where we use our technology partners like Adobe, and so on. But no one was actually handling agencies, despite the fact we had conversation with accounts where it was the agency actually using the solution on the behalf of the clients. So I’m like there is clearly a need there. And he’s a huge market for all the possible countries where we are selling as a product. So I’m like, I want to join the partnership team, because there is an opportunity, there is a role open and I can start it from scratch, which I did performance over four months for months, you know, officially when I was promoted, I started to do this a few months before because I was given the chance to kind of test the theory. And we ended up having to refresh engine see the biggest deal of full closing with a massive accounts. So that was the proof I needed to validate my role.
Pei Mun Lim 12:07
Amazing amazing. So that’s, so talk me through. So you would you would decibel you with VRP told me through your current role at Capgemini. What is it you do?
Charlotte Buton 12:19
So this time, while I was at the ERP consulting, I was handling the relationship with the ISV partners. So for people who don’t truly understand what it is, so it’s like the Salesforce ecosystem is huge, you know, so as you know, you’ve got like your Salesforce with all the Cloud products. But then you got like ISV partner, which are company having a product that can be, which is part of this ecosystem. So usually they’re very easy integration, and they can feel some gaps, you know, that can be like as well as document generation as it can be like, like the phone calls, it can be data recovery, like, the possibilities are huge, I can’t remember how many obstacles or many solution you’ve got on the AppExchange. But you know, you’re ever all marketplace there. But then when I started Capgemini, my role moved from ISV partner relationship to managing the relationship directly with Salesforce and no soft, which is an integration solution API management that Salesforce acquired a few years ago. So that’s the big difference is that now I am building the relationship directly with Salesforce, I got the counterpart and we working together to be able to identify opportunities, you know, new accounts, where like, we will try to sell some of the clouds. And at the same time, we want to obviously to do the implementation and levels all the services around so my role is I’m kind of this glue, you know, between like all the different teams to be sure that like our account executives, you know, like are aware if a partner is having a discussion, we have a presence within this account. Let’s have the conversation together to actually have a pitch together share a value proposition and make sure yes, I like everyone is happy you know, like your Salesforce is still getting licenses sold. And we’re getting services revenue.
Pei Mun Lim 14:09
Okay, sounds like sounds like it’s your dream job hits. Point.
Charlotte Buton 14:15
It is a trim shop if you are like someone who lacks relationship with people, because obviously like yeah, everyone kind of have their own agenda. And we don’t always care about the same thing, as I say like Salesforce would care about like, the licenses be being sold and the ACV number while we care about the services revenue. So it’s all about in annual sales about talking about this is what’s your this is what you’re getting, if you’re doing it, you know, you have to speak the language of each team which is different, and making sure that like they are happy and enthusiastic to do this. So it’s all about convincing people you know that like if they’re doing this they’re not doing me a favor. I’m actually doing them a favor. For taking this call with a partner and the partner, you know, to, to, to go to us, you know, like, if they wants to discuss an opportunity, so it’s not for everyone. But for me, it was definitely the right choice because becoming an account executive was not for me, I’m too nice.
Pei Mun Lim 15:21
You saying that all A’s are not nice things?
Charlotte Buton 15:23
No, they all have their different approach jumps in. But I just think that like being focus so much on the numbers, and not just like, I mean, if targets don’t get me wrong, I have numbers I need to achieve, you know, contribute, saying, but my role in alliances is so much more focused on like the relationship building. And I can tell you that, like, if the relationship is good, the number will increase. But like, if you’re just focusing on the numbers, you can make a transaction, because then that’s why you know, like, all the businesses need customer success to be sure that then you don’t forget the relationship elements, I noticed that not all the A’s are the same. But I think that a lot of very target driven and then sometimes forget the human on the other side, and especially in this dynamic world, where a lot of calls are happening, you know, instead of having face to face meeting in an office, I guess it’s so easy to kind of forget that on the other side of the screen, you know, is there is someone who has been through this pandemic might have some mental health issue. And even if they need to do a job, it doesn’t cause them anything to just ask, how are you doing today? You know, like in the middle of a business conversation
Pei Mun Lim 16:35
that that segues quite nicely into the topic entrepreneur, which is about how have you been coping during the pandemic, you start a new job, in that, you know, wasn’t a great fit? How did you manage to call in yourself in terms of just getting through it? Oh,
Charlotte Buton 16:56
I’m gonna be honest, I it was very, extremely poorly, my partner will say differently, say actually, that like, I was, I did very well, but I honestly don’t trust them. I’m gonna be honest, when I found out that, like, my role was being cocked, I couldn’t believe it. Because like, I was smashing targets. I was doing the numbers, my plan was working. And suddenly, I was told that, like, they were not interested because they wanted to downgrade me. So I was in shock. You know, it’s like, at this time, I’ve already lost my freedom. You know, like, yeah, I am someone who like, I love discovering all the new places in London, you know, like, restaurants, I love going to exhibition cultural events, I travel a lot. So I already had kind of my freedom being taken away, like, not for everyone else. Obviously, I’m not the only person. Because then I had my job that I fought so hard to get taken away from me. And I swear that I was convinced that like, my partner will I have my relationship with him was still recent, at the time, I’m like, is no is gonna leave that sits, you know, at this stage, I’m losing everything. So why not? Why not my love life. I was spending days crying in bed. And I’m not this kind of person. I’m a very emotional person who can go Yeah, from last thing to then sometimes losing my temper and all that I’m French as well. So I guess this is a reason why, but by never imagined that I would be this person having difficulties to get up in the morning. You know, like, I didn’t want to put makeup on. I was worried I barely wanted to dress up in the morning. Because why? You know, like, I don’t have to go out. I’m not talking to anyone. I’m not even working now. So I wanted to look for jobs. But it’s like there was nothing available or nothing that was matching my criteria. So it took me I think, yeah, two months to actually then get a grip. I think that’s when, as it’s time, I think it’s like you were allowed to leave again. So as the shop started to reopen, so London was still a ghost town. But I started going out a bit again, and I started to have this conversation with VRP. So I’m like, oh, there is hope here. And I ended up getting the role. So I was very happy. But then as I say I’ve faced the imposter syndrome for months thinking that, like, they hired me as the manager Lowville and they giving me so much independence, but I’m like, I don’t know what I’m doing. That’s always how I felt I was having great conversation. Everyone seems to be happy. And it was like I had the constant need of people telling me I was doing a good job. And at the same time, I didn’t want to ask for feedback because I was afraid they would tell me that I was not doing a good job, you know, and I was afraid to ask for training coaching everything just because I didn’t want to admit that I was at a bad place. Which was stupid, because like, they were there for me. They they were happy to help if I need it. But it was psychological. I couldn’t get myself to ask for was a help. That’s why I ended up registering for the Salesforce Women’s Network at the time, I needed to be able to talk to people who would understand what I was facing, were also women who could have had a struggle during the pandemic, you know, being made redundant or having to actually quit their job so they could watch over their kids this kind of situation. And it’s helped a lot, just knowing that there were some other women out there were facing mental health issue, and the imposter syndrome, not saying like, it’s a good thing, but it’s made me I felt less lonely, and it helps
Pei Mun Lim 20:36
a lot. Thank you for sharing, that’s quite a vulnerable share. So I do appreciate you telling the story. If you were if you were to go back in, you know, just be able to give yourself advice on how to approach the whole situation, what would you what would you say to yourself?
Charlotte Buton 21:05
You know, what, I don’t think I would actually change your saying, because it’s very easy to say, Yeah, I would tell myself, you know, things will get better, and so on. But it’s like, I was telling this to myself already at the time, I think, sometimes sit still healthy to go through this moment of vulnerability, and to cry to get the emotions, you know, to be as they are, I remember that as a time, I was so annoyed, and really pissed off, you know, to have all the sports about, like, you have to see the positive side, you’re not having COVID and being on the hospital beds, you know, like, you don’t have money issue, you know, the mother watch lost your job, but you don’t have those financial struggles. I’m like, I don’t want to focus on the bright side, right now. I feel like shit. And I have the right to like shit sorry to say this, like this, but I hated seeing this post and I even read articles actually about this constant need of positivity. And I am an optimistic person, I always have been possessed, I’m I felt, I don’t want to be because I have the right to feel upset. This is how I feel. And knowing that like, I’m not in the worst situation compared to others, doesn’t change how I feel. So I think that like it was the important thing is like, this, were my emotions, I had to accept them. And then I actually do my own journey to actually like, get back on track, look for jobs, you know, then facing my imposter syndrome, I still managed to get myself registers group. And that’s the end of the day, like the experience at VRP didn’t work. But again, I think that I learned from this experience to take to Capgemini. And it was like, yeah, sometimes you can’t make things work. You know, it’s like, I was trying hard, I could have probably done more. But even the company like the HR department, like, do you think we could have done things differently, because the reality is like, if they did, I would have probably stayed longer. And still, at the end of the day, realize that I still want someone, a direct boss, you know, like where I can report to work and ask Kel directly if I need to would be available for me. And the hybrid working because even if I’m getting used to working from home, and it’s not that bad, I’m actually really getting used to it now that I am so busy with my role. But it is nice to have the options to go to the office and see the team and so on. So I don’t think I would change anything because I think I got better straight. Not saying I want to ever face this again. But I think that like the experience taught me a lot about accepting the negative emotions and turn them into something.
Pei Mun Lim 23:50
That’s That’s amazing. I think a lot of people would have gone down the toxic positivity route. As you know, as you pointed out, because have some perspective as in say, you know, you’ve got house and etc. You’re not suffering quite as much, but it doesn’t change the fact that you are still suffering in your own way. So that’s the fact that you’ve said that this was a journey you had to take anyway. And that you wouldn’t change anything. That’s Thank you that was very, very brave to share. I think that’s your like as as as a volunteer with Samaritans, I think that a lot of people call. A lot of people feel they’re desperate. And sometimes where there’s only one option to all the solutions is because everyone is telling them that are invalidating what they’re feeling. Oh, you’ve lost your job. Don’t worry, you still have a house. You can’t get through university, that’s okay, you still have a family that loves you, or the person broke up with you that there’s still other fish in the sea. It, it does not help that person. And a lot of times we get callers who feel that they can’t talk to other people because they feel invalidated. Yes, I know, I’m luckier than everyone else, but it does not help me where I am today. So for you to share your experience that’s really quite powerful. I think, for a lot of people who will listen to this and enter the news feed that we get from LinkedIn, and all the other social media, it’s so steeped in positivity, and it helps some people. But for a lot of people, it doesn’t change the fact that their reality still hurts in the unique way that they are in how they perceive the things that happened to them. So I’m very grateful that you share that story, because it is such an important message to share. I am actually really, and you know this already, because we connected on LinkedIn, and I was so curious, you went to China to do your degree at Peking University, and it just blows my mind as a Chinese diaspora. So I’m a third generation Chinese immigrant from Malaysia. So not from China directly in for my generation, to view the mother land and things like it’s very, very different. And one of my dream for a long time was to actually live and work in China, but you know that that opportunity never arose. So tell me about how you what made you think I’m going to go to the other side of the planet and do this degree, just, you know, just tell me a bit about that.
Charlotte Buton 26:55
Actually, when I picked my international business degree when I selected this call, because really, because you have the possibility of spending two years abroad, at least, I ended up spending strip because I felt tragic. Lee’s a tough falls three times, which is the English language that we’re test that was required at the time to get into one of the partner university during the third year. So yeah, it’s very funny knowing that now it’s been seven years I’ve been living in London, I’m bilingual and got my British citizenship. So as approved, I like this tests are rubbish. But it was a requirement at the time. And I didn’t want to do the typical tasks that most people would do a lot say that they wanted to do international business, but they will still want to be close to home to have the possibility of going back frequently to see their family and friends. So a lot would go like to England, Spain, Germany, or St. Louis. Or obviously, a lot of people would want to try to get to the states. But that needed an even better English level in me, I wanted to get to China, because since I was a child, my dad talk about is tricky. He was a big traveler as well, I probably gives up from him. And he went to China, I think it was during the 80s. And from the video he showed me it seemed to be like a complete different world, you know, because everyone was on bicycle, everyone had like, the white shirts, you know, like with the mouse color and, and there was barely anything in terms of the building, it looks like you were actually like on the first half of the 20th century and not the second half. But like, it was quite impressive. And I was so curious, I always loved learning about the Chinese culture, like I wanted to try real Chinese food and not what was called Chinese food in France. And it sounds silly, but I was fascinated by the culture. So for me, it’s it’s like I think that if I want to make this experience worse, it’s you know, I will do the internships you know, in countries like in Europe to be able to get the proper work experience. But I want to try something different from the partner university and learn about Chinese culture, a bit of Mandarin Chinese economy, understand how to do business with China, because this is also the future I can benefit from the cultural experience but I can also benefit from the business experience to understand what are cultural differences and how can we work together
Pei Mun Lim 29:27
so you mentioned earlier on that you could speak French and German to speak Mandarin and what what what proficiency
Charlotte Buton 29:36
are please don’t speak to speak Mandarin on this call because like it is such a hard language. Let’s be honest, if I wanted to learn it properly, I should have gone to the University of Xiang because the ads every morning like the full morning was dedicated to Chinese listening Chinese writing Chinese speaking. We just add a few lessons and our teachers couldn’t speak proper English so that was made Here’s the learning learning experience so hard. And something I definitely learned is like you can know the vocabulary. But if you’re not saying the right with the right tone, they just won’t understand anything. So that’s definitely didn’t help. It’s definitely I’m very good at learning languages, but Monterey was not in the cards. But there is one expression, I would advise everyone to know if they go to China, it’s DayQuil. Or it’s too expensive. I probably say that’s wrong now, because it’s been years since I used it. But trust me, if you go to China, if you want to buy anything, you always have to bargain. So she knows this expression that will decrease abroad.
Pei Mun Lim 30:43
What a great tip, thank you very, very much for that. So just looking at your LinkedIn profile, so you went to Beijing, and then you moved on to come to university to do international fashion marketing? How did you tell me about that decision making is fashion something that you already?
Charlotte Buton 31:02
You know, what, it’s a very funny question, because like, people won’t believe me based on our I’m so outgoing, and the fact that my audience says like, a decade ago, I used to be an introvert person, I had a very low self esteem and confidence, it was just terrible, I would be afraid to go out, I would have some hyper ventilation crisis, you know, like, you were so nice, almost like, you know, you need to plastic bags to flow in because I was afraid to go out, I was afraid of being judged. Like, I was not paying much attention to my appearance. And then when I was actually like, you know, I told you, I failed my TOEFL test. So I ended up spending a year in England in London, to do an Au Pair experience. So you know, when you take care of children living with a family, because I just wanted to do something completely different, and I thought it’d be a good experience. And I just suddenly started to, to change. You know, I started reading fashion magazines that my friend left the time that she found an apartment in London, so I had a massive pile of magazines that she left with me because she was keeping all of them and I started to go through them. I dyed my hair and blonde because I needed change, I started to put makeup on and I started to try to find my style. And suddenly my vision of fashion changed. I always use that as like a reason for girls to bully me when because they were supposed to be as a fashionable girls and trendy so for me fashion as a bad connotation. You know, for me, anyone who likes fashion was superficial, you know. And he that was my point of view. And then I realized that like if you’re step away from this, girls, and you actually take fashion for what it is, it can be a way to self express yourself. You know, it can be your way to show your individuality what you like how you want to present yourself, you know, because appearance is very important, no matter the kind of appearance you’re showing, you know, it can connect you with people who shares the same values and so on. So actually, I decided I wanted to do an international fashion degree because and I want to move to do it in London because London is a place for a subculture. As you know, a lot of subcultures happen in the 20th century with the mods with a miniskirt and the kind of Bob You know, like the Beatles style, or sends a punk style is a goth style. And I was fascinated at the idea of learning about all this independent designer who wanted to show their individuality. So it didn’t work, obviously, but I still have no regrets who have learned this because like London is such a great place, you know, like such a fantastic melting pot. So you know, like to have like all this cultures and fashion influence from all the different country and I love being part of the London culture. Yeah.
Pei Mun Lim 33:49
So you mentioned something really interesting, which was introvert, you weren’t introvert before? Do you think that was more due to the fact that you were having challenges learning English? Or is that a natural part of your nature?
Charlotte Buton 34:10
Now it is very funny because we had this conversation with my partner yesterday. He said, like, I was probably never an introvert is just like the things I’ve been facing in my life with a lot of bullying and so on. That actually made me to have a low self esteem and confidence. So I just needed the experience to be able to get my personality out there because I was always talkative it was in my family that was always there but it shows that I was afraid of my own shadow. I was afraid that every time I would open my mouth to say something you know, like there would be bullied on it because any any reason where groups you know for people, and then when I started traveling, I was doing it by myself without knowing anyone while a lot of people at uni, were going as a group of friends you know, they were trying to find the internships like an old rate on the cities, they would go, I just went by myself in Germany, you know, like, then I went by myself doing the upper job. I didn’t know anyone when I went to China because suddenly I was with a different promotion. So it didn’t matter. And same for Montreal, I always did it by myself. Before I meet my partner, I was traveling by myself. And I think that actually like sometimes being with yourself is a good occasion to meet new people learn from this new peoples, they don’t know us, they don’t have to judge you. And you can actually find your own voice, you know, and what you want to do with your life without having the pressure of people were actually I should have never not been listening to them as a first place. Because now I’m so happy and proud of the person I became, you know, as a job I’ve got in my life. And sometimes I look back at the past that some of these people took and I’m like, clearly, I didn’t have any, any reason to listen to this people. They didn’t know they didn’t carry the truth with them. So I think it’s a great advice to give to people is like, even if at the time you know, it might feel difficult. And you just wonder what is wrong with you? Sometimes like you will realize that actually what was wrong with them? You on your typical
Pei Mun Lim 36:20
zoom calls. Indeed. Thank you for that, that was really quite useful to know in terms of when something is wrong is not found is that okay? Learn talk about silly motivation is about. It’s not new, but it’s the environment that’s causing you to grow in a very specific way. I like the fact. So we first met at that networking call, and then we connected after that. I’m really liking what I see now. Because it sounds like you’ve actually found your groove, you seem to be in such a great place. And it kind of comes out to talk to me about what the things that drives me, one of the things that fills your soul with joy
Charlotte Buton 37:11
really is a connection with people is so important, which is funny, because I know I say that before I used to like, you know, like not really your friends or anything like this. And then I was avoiding people because I was afraid of them. And I traveled by myself. But I actually love meeting with people, especially new ones. You know, like, I think other differences are so important to learn, you know, like I love being in London and going out. So for me yeah, what’s driving me is definitely the relationship part, which is why I love being an audience’s manager so much you know, it’s like I’m meeting all the time at work great people. So at cap at Salesforce and no soft, you know, like, I know, it’s fantastic to be able to meet with them face to face, you know, for a nice lunch or drink, you know, so relationship with people is definitely was driving me. And I guess that like the other thing would be new experiences. I still want now to go back to trying new restaurants of different types of foods on a monthly basis. This is what we agreed with my partner for this year. It’s like now that we are double jump plus booth stage you know, it’s like nothing can stop us. So at least once a month, we have a date night trying new food. In January we did Russian further which we never tried before. We did a task restaurants on Saturday, let’s see what is going to be next month. But yet back to the new experiences with again, cultural events, exhibitions, traveling, you know, like I don’t know what our next destination is going to be because we still need to get back to it. You know, it’s been two years since when it’s so much planning. So it’s not about having a lack of spontaneity and planning everything but it’s like, I want to make the most of his life. And I think I was already doing it before the pandemic and didn’t either wake up call, you know, when it happens to make the most of it. So now I just want to get back to it. You know, and we started this year, it took some time. But I think we’re finally on the right paths, you know, to get back to enjoying the life as it is.
Pei Mun Lim 39:11
So cool. Thank you. I just wanted to thank you once again for the time being spent to talk to me and it’s so great to see I just I’m just reflecting back to you when we first spoke I think it was about a year and a half ago I can’t remember now and to see you clearly enjoying your life in your work and thank you for sharing your lessons on this call. I appreciate it.
Charlotte Buton 39:39
I really appreciate the pace like you’re you’re inviting me to do this like for people who might be listening or watching this it’s like I never did this before. I speak a lot during like conversation online with others but I never did something that was recorded. So please like it my thoughts were all over the place. So like I apologize for this but I really hope that’s my personal experience will inspire people you know, to be less cruel over themselves. Because I think this was the thing is like, I was beating myself up because I hated what I was saying, you know, like in the mirror. But sometime I think it’s important to remember to be a bit more gentle with yourself. I think this is the best advisor if you had to take one thing out of this call
Pei Mun Lim 40:23
slowly I think everyone is talking about being kind to others and we forget that it’s really important tool to do it for ourselves. So on that note, thank you again, Charlotte.
Charlotte Buton 40:35
Thank you very much.